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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:58 am
  #1456  
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr
She popped up yesterday in a thread when someone mentioned complaining to the DOT. It was that thread about different amounts being charged for miles. So, my guess is she reads these posts all day long but no longer gets involved since she can't win. If she try's to help us, the co steps on her. If she does not try, we step on her
IMO the Rainey incident and corresponding widespread backlash has led to a moratorium on pretty much all non-official PR statements.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:59 am
  #1457  
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Originally Posted by bseller
While I'm not surprised, I think it's pretty clear that you misunderstood my post. The FTer to whom I replied had reported lots of fine experiences with UA. GOOD FOR THEM!
However, as you seem perpetually unwilling or unable to appreciate, ONE of the likely reasons for these feelings is that said poster is flying CO routes, with pmCO GS pax.
In order to help he/she understand why there are others who've had different experiences, I simply pointed this out. If that makes you feel that I'm expressing "pmUA knows best", then so be it. It's NOT.
I understand that you're pointing out a PMCO passenger is going to be satisfied in the same situation where a PMUA passenger would be unsatisfied. I just happen to think that reflects a perspective PMUA passengers knew better, and by default, PMCO passengers knew less.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 11:03 am
  #1458  
 
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr
She popped up yesterday in a thread when someone mentioned complaining to the DOT. It was that thread about different amounts being charged for miles. So, my guess is she reads these posts all day long but no longer gets involved since she can't win. If she try's to help us, the co steps on her. If she does not try, we step on her
It's definitely a no-win situation and I feel for UA Insider, who must feel like the jam in the sandwich.

This forum is so negative right now (and I've contributed my share) with much back-and-forth unpleasantness and sniping. I can only hope that eventually UA and we can move past this into a more positive situation.

A lot of that is up to UA. I can stop posting here but I can't pretend that things are better than or even "almost as good as" what existed before the merger.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 11:19 am
  #1459  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
I understand that you're pointing out a PMCO passenger is going to be satisfied in the same situation where a PMUA passenger would be unsatisfied.
OK, I'll take you at your word that you understand this. If so, then you should also be able to appreciate that this is not tantamount to "knowing better".

Look, I dont really care if others like, tolerate, or LOVE the new CO. I just don't want anyone to misunderstand that it's not the UA on which I flew all those years. pmCO pax have gained a lot in this takeover - GOOD FOR THEM!!

I think there's a saying: to the victor go the spoils.

Just no need to rub it in, and follow up by telling us we're nuts cos we don't have the same great feelings for the new airline. That oughta be easy enough to follow, no???

Dave

Originally Posted by UA-NYC
IMO the Rainey incident and corresponding widespread backlash has led to a moratorium on pretty much all non-official PR statements.
That and the fact that no reasonably MAJOR issue on which she's engaged has seen any improvement - short of HEARING that "it'll get better someday".

Maybe she's just out of energy???

Dave

Last edited by iluv2fly; Jun 15, 2012 at 12:43 pm Reason: merge
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 11:32 am
  #1460  
 
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Originally Posted by bseller
Look, I dont really care if others like, tolerate, or LOVE the new CO. I just don't want anyone to misunderstand that it's not the UA on which I flew all those years. pmCO pax have gained a lot in this takeover - GOOD FOR THEM!!

I think there's a saying: to the victor go the spoils.

Just no need to rub it in, and follow up by telling us we're nuts cos we don't have the same great feelings for the new airline. That oughta be easy enough to follow, no???

Dave
Exactly! ^ I mean no disrespect to any CO flyers who find the new airline is an improved (or equivalent) experience for them.

The same type of debate has occurred over the changes to the Million Miles and Beyond program. CO MMs saw their status enhanced from Silver to Gold, and other benefits maintained. UA treated the legacy CO IEs very generously.

Some CO flyers simply could not understand the reasons why many PMUA MMs (not all) were unhappy, nor understand the depth of the dissatisfaction that eventually led a customer to sue over the loss of benefits (copy of amended complaint here).

It's all a matter of perspective and understanding where the other person is coming from. @:-)
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 12:43 pm
  #1461  
 
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Originally Posted by ozstamps
.

I used to think that too. If it is a choice between a 5 dollar bill and bad media, the money wins these days it seems.

Long term a disaster policy of course but they just do not seem to see that reality.
.
I do think that COdbaUA sees the reality, the PRASM and DOT numbers don't lie. But there is a difference between the middle level (and customer focused folks) who see that it is not working out, and the CEO/CFO who came up with the stratagy, will be blaimed for it if it does not work out, and also see very real the costs of trying to fix it.

They are really in a no win situation. The systems take time to fix, improving service levels or sweetening the MP program costs money, and wall street is watching (with a miopic focus on cost cutting). Better to stick with the stratagy, and hope that external factors (fuel costs coming down, etc) give them some time to adjust in a way where it does not look like a 180. None of this is good for the stockholders long term, but it certainly protects the executives who are (theoretically) responsible.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 3:37 pm
  #1462  
 
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Originally Posted by Fredd
It's definitely a no-win situation and I feel for UA Insider, who must feel like the jam in the sandwich.

This forum is so negative right now (and I've contributed my share) with much back-and-forth unpleasantness and sniping. I can only hope that eventually UA and we can move past this into a more positive situation.

A lot of that is up to UA. I can stop posting here but I can't pretend that things are better than or even "almost as good as" what existed before the merger.
So exquisitively well put!! methinks most of us really want things to get alot better,incoporating what we feel has been lost or devalued. Hopefully it gets to the place where we ALL are fairly satisfied.pmUA,pmCO,post March 3,2012elites of all stripes and Unitedental management & employeees !!
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 6:34 pm
  #1463  
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Originally Posted by bseller
Just no need to rub it in, and follow up by telling us we're nuts cos we don't have the same great feelings for the new airline. That oughta be easy enough to follow, no???
I've NEVER said anyone has to have great feelings for UA.

If you don't like UA, by all means, fly another carrier.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 7:26 pm
  #1464  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
I understand that you're pointing out a PMCO passenger is going to be satisfied in the same situation where a PMUA passenger would be unsatisfied. I just happen to think that reflects a perspective PMUA passengers knew better, and by default, PMCO passengers knew less.
Respectfully, I didn't interpret bseller's comment or perspective that way. He seemed to simply be saying that PMUA and PMCO passengers were familiar with different airlines' systems and practices, which can account for why many PMUA might be less satisfied with certain changes.

In a very limited sense, then, PMUA know better about what they've lost. That seems like a logical, natural perspective. But that's not to suggest that they know better in any absolute sense of overall knowledge or superiority, and I don't think bseller was saying that.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 7:29 pm
  #1465  
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Originally Posted by Thunderroad

In a very limited sense, then, PMUA know better about what they've lost. That seems like a logical, natural perspective. But that's not to suggest that they know better in any absolute sense of overall knowledge or superiority.
I couldn't have said it any better. I TRIED to upthread, I just didn't say it as well as you did.

Dave
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:55 pm
  #1466  
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Originally Posted by spin88

I do think that COdbaUA sees the reality, the PRASM and DOT numbers don't lie. But there is a difference between the middle level (and customer focused folks) who see that it is not working out, and the CEO/CFO who came up with the stratagy, will be blaimed for it if it does not work out, and also see very real the costs of trying to fix it.

They are really in a no win situation. The systems take time to fix, improving service levels or sweetening the MP program costs money, and wall street is watching (with a miopic focus on cost cutting).

Better to stick with the strategy, and hope that external factors (fuel costs coming down, etc) give them some time to adjust in a way where it does not look like a 180. None of this is good for the stockholders long term, but it certainly protects the executives who are (theoretically) responsible.
I do not have an MBA and am not paid $13 million a year to run this circus.

But if I had both I'd have used my brains, and left the Elite program totally unchanged UNTIL the cr*pola ancient CO computer system had been given a chance to integrate from CO's far smaller base, to UA far vaster needs, and global network.

IF all that integrated and bedded down, after a while take the next steps and tinker with the FF plan and top Elites. Logical and wise management policy.

The fact there were endless hassles with the ancient system was totally predicable by anyone with any knowledge of IT.

That alone was going to p!ss off many regular flyers - all tech changes do - HOWEVER we all put up with such things, as they are understandable, AND if there are no other irritating changes.

And in the end with all savvy companies, all get fixed, one way or the other.

But to come out both Texan six-guns guns blazing - foist us with a cruddy old system that clearly cannot cope AND change the FF plan in a negative way, was just plain stupidity.

Those rushed changes alienated a TON of their very best flyers forever. Decades of loyalty down the toilet in a few months. EVERY Million Miler lost something - how dumb is it to mess with those folks?

Disclaimer again - I do not have an MBA, and am not paid $13 million a year to run this circus.

I also have not spent a cent with UA for 7 months.
.

Last edited by ozstamps; Jun 15, 2012 at 11:48 pm
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 11:36 pm
  #1467  
 
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Originally Posted by ozstamps
I do not have an MBA and am not paid $13 million a year to run this circus.

But if I had both I'd have used my brains, and left the Elite program totally unchanged UNTIL the cr*pola ancient CO computer system had been given a change to integrate from CO's far smaller base, to UA far vaster needs and global network.

IF that integrated and bedded down, after a while take the next steps. Logical and wise management policy.

The fact there were endless hassles with the ancient system was totally predicable by anyone with any knowledge of IT.

That alone was going to p!ss off many regular flyers - all tech changes do - HOWEVER we all put up with such things, as they are understandable.

And in the end with all savvy companies, all get fixed, one way or the other.

But to come out both Texan six-guns guns blazing - foist us with a cruddy old system that clearly cannot cope AND change the FF plan in a negative way, was just plain stupidity.

Those rushed changes alienated a TON of their very best flyers forever. Decades of loyalty down the toilet in a few months. EVERY Million Miler lost something - how dumb is it to mess with those folks?

Disclaimer - I do not have an MBA, and am not paid $13 million a year to run this circus.

I also have not spent a cent with UA for 7 months.
.
and they also cheapened inflight soft product and went with the lowest comment service level of either airline, implemented the crappy CO boarding process, and gutted the GS/1k desks. I could go on...

So they actually went out with a texas six shooter in each hand. totally stupid, alas Wall Street has few folks who understand what is really happening in businesses, and more number pushers, and it will take them a while to catch on to how bad things are...
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 12:26 am
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Originally Posted by sxf24
I've NEVER said anyone has to have great feelings for UA.

If you don't like UA, by all means, fly another carrier.
There are 2 way to do business:
1. If you don't like me, by all means, go to other carriers.
2. If you don't like me, please let me know and I will try to do reasonable improvement to gain your business.

I believe the first one is the worse way to do business.

Last edited by pigx5; Jun 16, 2012 at 12:36 am
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 5:10 am
  #1469  
 
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Originally Posted by Fredd
Exactly! ^ I mean no disrespect to any CO flyers who find the new airline is an improved (or equivalent) experience for them.
The CO-side employees themselves are not accustomed to the new rules.

A few weeks ago, registered for the flight to Mumbai. I used a systemwide (or whatever it is called now) to upgrade. My name was NOT on the list when I went to the airport.

I asked to be put on the list. She said she believed she couldn't do that. "Well, humor me... I have not much confidence in your computer system). That led to a 10-minute speech about how just great the system really is - it is really the CO people trying to operate UA-way that screws up the whole thing.

Matter of perspective indeed.

But she did humor me. And, to her great surprise, SHARES DID let her add my name to the upgrade list.

Then went to EWR. Took a look at united club. "Number four sir, but doesn't look good".

Then, went to the gate, resigned to get my seat in the back. Well, boarding pass doesn't work. "Oh, you are now 2A".

Great!

Even better, somehow, they didn't even charge me for a systemwide. Well, in all likeliness, one of them is going to run out of life anyway, so ultimately it all works out.

So, not only it is a matter of perspective... but the system is really, really broken. It is not only the UA people that can't make heads or tails of SHARES. It is also the CO people that feel that the company is somehow going downhill doing things the UA way.

At least, that upgrade that finally came through kinda reconciled me with the company a bit, because I was starting seriously to consider other options. They still did not send me my card yet. I must be one of these over-entitled SOB that Rainey complained about.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 5:14 am
  #1470  
 
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Originally Posted by skidooman
The CO-side employees themselves are not accustomed to the new rules.
I cannot even get them to add me to a standby list

As far as calling them for anything, yes they do pick up the phone pretty quickly but useless thereafter. They put you on hold while they ask their help desk or colleagues nearby.

Last edited by TravellingMan; Jun 16, 2012 at 5:22 am Reason: add phone quality
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