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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:48 am
  #1441  
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Originally Posted by bseller
Please tell me - to WHOM do you refer?
Those who express the viewpoint I described.

Originally Posted by UA-NYC
Many of us fly regularly and have been impacted negatively by the changes.

Perhaps your opinion and situation are *different*.
Since this is a frequent flier forum, I think we all fly regularly...

What I don't appreciate is having a vocal group of members who were PMUA elites dismiss any positive or neutral sentiments by telling the member who shared them that they're ignorant and don't know any better.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:57 am
  #1442  
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Originally Posted by bseller
Many, many CO flyers share your feelings completely. VERY VERY few of the UA elites share them at all. This, sadly, was NOT a merger, it was a takeover of United by a large, fortress-hubbed, regional carrier.
Originally Posted by sxf24

This is an interesting perspective that is frequently repeated on the forum. Regardless of its validity, it is saddening that certain people think so much of themselves and/or so little of others.
Simple Math shows that MOST MP flyers were ex UA. They got royally screwed, and lied to, and not nearly as much as the ex CO flyers did.

Why do those getting screwed, often after spending mid 6 figure$$, with United, voicing valid concerns about UA "Sadden" you??

Let me guess what side of the fence you are from. @:-)

.

Last edited by l etoile; Jun 15, 2012 at 10:49 am Reason: clean up quotes
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:59 am
  #1443  
 
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Originally Posted by mitchmu
Carnage in revenue is the only hope for things to improve. If the financial metrics are good, then this is what the future is going to look like. I'm with you.
and it will take several quarters to see how that plays out.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:06 am
  #1444  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
Since this is a frequent flier forum, I think we all fly regularly....
Maybe yes, maybe no. Some make it more clear than others.

What I don't appreciate is having a vocal group of members who were PMUA elites dismiss any positive or neutral sentiments by telling the member who shared them that they're ignorant and don't know any better.
Agreed, same goes for claimed expertise and supposed "levels of reading comprehension"
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:07 am
  #1445  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
Those who express the viewpoint I described.
That's what I thought. For a moment there it sure "seemed" as though you might have been making the remark at my personal expense, which, of course........blah, blah, blah FT TOS violation. Thanks for clarifying.
Originally Posted by sxf24
Since this is a frequent flier forum, I think we all fly regularly...
Except for those of us who don't. Or those whose hobbies including trolling and/or Dragons and Dungeons. Just sayin.
Originally Posted by sxf24
What I don't appreciate is having a vocal group of members who were PMUA elites dismiss any positive or neutral sentiments by telling the member who shared them that they're ignorant and don't know any better.
I dont think I've ever seen what you describe here???
Perhaps you could show us an example? OR better yet, if you have seen such a thing - report it to the Mods.


Dave
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:10 am
  #1446  
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Originally Posted by ozstamps
Simple Math shows that MOST MP flyers were ex UA. They got royally screwed, and lied to, and not nearly as much as the ex CO flyers did.

Why do those getting screwed, often after spending mid 6 figure$$, with United, voicing valid concerns about UA "Sadden" you??

Let me guess what side of the fence you are from. @:-)

.
Where is this simple math? I would agree that there are more MP members from UA, but it is a stretch to say they make up most of the population.

I'm sorry you feel like you got royally screwed and lied to. However, I don't think that means that PMUA and PMCO customers who are satisfied with the service and benefits are less intelligent, sophisticated, or knowledgeable then the customers who are dissatisfied.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:13 am
  #1447  
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Originally Posted by sxf24

Where is this simple math? I would agree that there are more MP members from UA, but it is a stretch to say they make up most of the population.
Thanks for clarifying your thought processes.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:21 am
  #1448  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky
The reason some of this doesn't make sense here is that people equate FFPs with elite status, and the two are not all that related...
The only reason I'm bringing it up is the context in which there is potential for the UA brand to be tarnished. I could mention other companies for which I wouldn't want a benefits-attached credit card.

Again, UA can do what it wants and I know nothing about the industry, but I can't believe they and their "partners" don't care about bad publicity.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:23 am
  #1449  
 
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Smile agree

I agree with above comments. Currently at 68 segments and 108,000 miles for the year based in Cle. Have not had any problem on any flight this year.
No reservation problems, no lost miles. My upgrade rate as a 1K ( 2 mm)has been 100%.

Actually had more problems in the past years. Have been in the program since the start in 1981 and a PMUA person.

While many have had problems i would like to use the forum to get info like in the past--the gripping serves little purpose. Remember in the past they called it .bomb now they say the new web site (same as CO is worse when they used to say it was better)

Hope FF members can get better and run a forum for info to help travels and no be a gripe forum. The forum has lost it helpfulness on other airline and hotels sites also

TK in Cle
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:28 am
  #1450  
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Originally Posted by bseller
Except for those of us who don't. Or those whose hobbies including trolling and/or Dragons and Dungeons. Just sayin.
I could care less who you are. Lets focus on the logic and basis of the points being made. Of course, you could join the posters who demand certain qualifications to opine in the UA forum?

Originally Posted by bseller
I dont think I've ever seen what you describe here???
Perhaps you could show us an example? OR better yet, if you have seen such a thing - report it to the Mods.
I think your post from earlier in the thread is somewhat indicative of the PMUA elite-knows-best perspective I described.

I'm not one to report posts to mods because I don't like what's being said. That process is reserved for attacks that violate Rules and Guidelines.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:32 am
  #1451  
 
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Originally Posted by mitchmu
I have been thinking a lot about this quote (not from ibuyyoufly but from OP).

Option 1: An airline such as AA or UA before CO that has a moderate route network and a good FF program including reasonable UG opportunities.

Option 2: An airline such as COdbaUA that has an outstanding route network but nearly impossible UG opportunities.

These choices present quite a dilemma.

.
I think I echo others in saying that their is an option 3: An airline that provides superior service, seats/food/expereince, and sells its F/C product. VX is doing this with their F product, PS and AA Flagship service do this as well, domestically, and Foreign carriers do this internationally.


Originally Posted by mitchmu
With option 2, it's easy to get status, b/c the airline flies everywhere you want to go, often with good schedules, direct flights, and/or decent connections. Therefore, it's easy to stay with the airline for all/most travel needs and maintain status. But, the other side of the coin is that status has hardly any value if the airline trashes their FF program once they get a compelling route network. So, it's easy to get status, but the status is worth almost nothing.

With option 1, it's a lot harder to get status, b/c there are fewer places to fly, and less pleasant to be with the airline, b/c the routes/connections are less desirable. However, the status is actually worth something, as you can get UG frequently - such as reported by those who switched to AA and as I experienced on legacy UA for almost 10 years before 3/3/12.

So, given these two choices, what's best? It seems to me that a business traveller with budget to fly paid C would choose option 2, since he or she gets the limited benefits of status and enjoys a good route network and doesn't have to suffer with E- or E+ anyway. This is clearly the most valuable customer to the airline too.
Unless they are seeking ancellary benifits to themselves (which come from a FF program and its capacity to provide free travel) it strikes me that the Paid C/F traveler will chose the best service and schedual combination. Absent a rich reward program to try to drive the traffic to a carrier then these flier will go with the best service. And to some extent schedual will not always compensate, especially when the flights get long. For example, several folks in my office have given up on UA and fly VX (for better service) in paid F when the flight times work.

Originally Posted by mitchmu
The more I think about it, it seems that one of the core strategies being executed by the CO regime is to squeeze frequent flyers by cutting every possible benefit and rest on the assumption that they won't leave due to the superior route network.

...

The most upsetting part of this is that they could actually be right.
This is their business stratagy, and this is their assumption. But there is one additional piece in that they have ramped up the milage rewards for "full fare" tickets. Global First gets 250% bonus, F/C gets 175% bonus.

So they are assuming they will not loose the "sub-M/B" travelers as upgrades go away, while getting more M/B and higher travelers with the pull of MP miles.

The problem is that the travelers who they want to attract (and I am one, most of my travel is M or above) also want/demand a certain level of service. UA is just not competative, and the extra miles are not that much of a draw given how hard UA has made to use them. So they are giving devalued miles/status to people who don't need it (since they are getting the good seats anyway).

Meanwhile,the program does not drive as much traffic for those who sometimes are on sub-m fares, or fly on a fix of fares. Most travelers are a mix of fares. So the lack of upgrades bites, as does the devalued milage program.

Perhaps this system would work if the MP miles were easier to use (more F/C availability) to compensate for poor service at the top of the fare chart and fewer upgrades at the bottom. But then they would be relying on the loyalty program.

Or perhaps it would work if they improved the quality of the F/C product (so that they did not need to rely upon the loyality program, instead people would be happy with much better service if fewer upgrades).

However, cutting both service quality and the loyality program has attracted no one as the horrible PRASM numbers in March/April/May have shown.

Perhaps this trend is an aberation, but so far it has not worked out as they assumed it would.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:33 am
  #1452  
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Originally Posted by Fredd

Again, UA can do what it wants and I know nothing about the industry, but I can't believe they and their "partners" don't care about bad publicity.
.

I used to think that too. If it is a choice between a 5 dollar bill and bad media, the money wins these days it seems.

Long term a disaster policy of course but they just do not seem to see that reality.
.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:45 am
  #1453  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
I could care less who you are.
HAHAHAHAHAH!! That's a good one!
Originally Posted by sxf24
Lets focus on the logic and basis of the points being made. Of course, you could join the posters who demand certain qualifications to opine in the UA forum?
A new one on me, and I've been posting in this forum for a great deal longer than I recall seeing your handle. Oh well.
Originally Posted by sxf24
I think your post from earlier in the thread is somewhat indicative of the PMUA elite-knows-best perspective I described.
While I'm not surprised, I think it's pretty clear that you misunderstood my post. The FTer to whom I replied had reported lots of fine experiences with UA. GOOD FOR THEM!
However, as you seem perpetually unwilling or unable to appreciate, ONE of the likely reasons for these feelings is that said poster is flying CO routes, with pmCO GS pax.
In order to help he/she understand why there are others who've had different experiences, I simply pointed this out. If that makes you feel that I'm expressing "pmUA knows best", then so be it. It's NOT.
Originally Posted by sxf24
I'm not one to report posts to mods because I don't like what's being said. That process is reserved for attacks that violate Rules and Guidelines.
Good. We have that in common, then.

Dave
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:54 am
  #1454  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
I could care less who you are. Lets focus on the logic and basis of the points being made. Of course, you could join the posters who demand certain qualifications to opine in the UA forum?
No qualifications are needed to post here. Of course, certain bombastic, dogmatic, myopic statements will naturally be taken less seriously if posters don't give actual relevant, corresponding examples of experience, be it professional or flying-related.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 10:56 am
  #1455  
 
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Originally Posted by DCEsquire
+1

I haven't seen UA Insider on here in months. Since this (so stated) isn't a UA employee, maybe the better question is does s/he have any relationship with UA where renumeration directly or indirectly is involved. Given the tone I hope not otherwise I would never fly another mile on UA again, even if I had to do 3 connections iAd-sfo
She popped up yesterday in a thread when someone mentioned complaining to the DOT. It was that thread about different amounts being charged for miles. So, my guess is she reads these posts all day long but no longer gets involved since she can't win. If she try's to help us, the co steps on her. If she does not try, we step on her
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