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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old Jun 18, 2012, 2:16 pm
  #1516  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: UA 1K 1MM / AA PP, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 949
Originally Posted by UA-NYC
I'm not sure if the "love" Silvers - they tolerate them, and they clearly don't want any more of them

Now if we want to talk about "not liking" any elite level, 1K surely rises to the top.
Agreed.

I'm guessing the next step is another modification in the boarding process:

1) Chase credit card holders (clearly the most important customer now)
2) General OnePass members (sorry, Mileage Plus)
3) *S/Silver
4) *G/Plat, etc
5) 1K/GS
6) everyone else

Would keep those pesky actual 'frequent fliers' out of the way for the most profitable customer: CC holders and kettles.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 2:17 pm
  #1517  
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Now if we want to talk about "not liking" any elite level, 1K surely rises to the top.
that's because the benefits that 1Ks get (especially SWU) UA thinks of as "losing money".
(e.g. a 1K will spend SWU instead of cash on a business class seat). They don't think of it as "a 1K will fly us instead of (pick almost any int'l airline, they're mostly better/cheaper) on their leisure trip with the wife, buy a much more expensive fare to use the SWU, etc."

instead they think they're losing a full J fare. dumb.
entropy is offline  
Old Jun 18, 2012, 2:32 pm
  #1518  
 
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC
I'm not sure if the "love" Silvers - they tolerate them, and they clearly don't want any more of them
This comment does not compute...

Essentially, you are saying that UA leadership thinks like this: "I am a leader at UA, I only want people to fly my airline who don't fly it very much (<25,000 / year)?"

Yes, perhaps the line between GM (<25,000 / yr) and Silver (25,000 - 50,000 / yr) is not as clear cut as it used to be, especially with the United Explorer Card and the Club Card. But still, a lot of revenue, and hopefully some profit, comes to UA from the Silver flying community.

Originally Posted by UA-NYC
Now if we want to talk about "not liking" any elite level, 1K surely rises to the top.
UA-NYC: We can argue this point 'til we're blue in the face. 1K continues to provide me with extremely valuable benefits. Period.

I realize your experience is different than mine, but 1K continues to offer me real, great value.
LarkSFO is offline  
Old Jun 18, 2012, 2:38 pm
  #1519  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC
To be fair, this "un-virtuous circle" has started due to bitter emnity against this "leadership" team due to their anti-loyal consumer policies and unwavering support for an ineffectual computer system.

So them taking us less seriously is reciprocated by them having minimal credibility with us.
+1. Nicely stated.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 3:05 pm
  #1520  
 
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Originally Posted by LarkSFO

UA-NYC: We can argue this point 'til we're blue in the face. 1K continues to provide me with extremely valuable benefits. Period.
I realize your experience is different than mine, but 1K continues to offer me real, great value.
Why do you need to argue?
What UA-NYC said is true and I do realize that your experience is different
than most 1Ks which is good for you.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 4:01 pm
  #1521  
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Originally Posted by LarkSFO
This comment does not compute...

Essentially, you are saying that UA leadership thinks like this: "I am a leader at UA, I only want people to fly my airline who don't fly it very much (<25,000 / year)?"

Yes, perhaps the line between GM (<25,000 / yr) and Silver (25,000 - 50,000 / yr) is not as clear cut as it used to be, especially with the United Explorer Card and the Club Card. But still, a lot of revenue, and hopefully some profit, comes to UA from the Silver flying community.
They have plenty of elites, most of whom are at the Silver level - they believe that they can cut Silver benefits (E+ was THE key benefit of being a Silver, and now that's a gamble at T-24) and still maintain enough of them.

With load factors at historic highs, why wouldn't they want to fill up the plane with as many non-elites as possible? No bonus miles, no sucking up free upgrades, get to charge baggage and other ancillary fees, etc.

UA-NYC: We can argue this point 'til we're blue in the face. 1K continues to provide me with extremely valuable benefits. Period.

I realize your experience is different than mine, but 1K continues to offer me real, great value.
Apples and oranges question - 1K provides me plenty of benefits too. SWUs are great, and I like riding in the front cabin. I'm not denying 1K benefits.

You're missing my point though - I don't believe the new UA actually likes 1Ks anymore. Again, they'd rather fill up steerage w/Kettles, and doesn't really care who's in C/F, as long as they're paying as much as possible. And of course while there are many 1Ks like me who are really more like GS-lite, "we" have plenty of less profitable segments, and thus aren't beloved by COdbaUA on those flights - only when we're buying GS-level fares, on those specific flights.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 4:21 pm
  #1522  
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC

they'd rather fill up steerage w/Kettles, and doesn't really care who's in C/F, as long as they're paying as much as possible.
All of which works GREAT until that time when they CAN'T fill steerage with Kettles.

Then what, FLIBS??? @:-)

Dave
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 5:43 pm
  #1523  
 
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC
And of course while there are many 1Ks like me who are really more like GS-lite, "we" have plenty of less profitable segments, and thus aren't beloved by COdbaUA on those flights - only when we're buying GS-level fares, on those specific flights.
Even GS buy down with some frequency. The reality that other than the uber-rich (who are probably flying Netjets or the like) pretty much all travelers buy a mix of tickets - GS just buy enough expensive ones to get UA's apparent attention (although my sense at the moment is that they'd rather not give GS much in benefits either but that's a separate discussion). This is why I think UA would have been much better advised when they were revamping MP to actually move to a yield based program of some sort. At the moment GS is all or nothing. It leaves out in the cold someone like you who perhaps is close to GS but not quite meeting their hurdle. 1K covers everything from the GS who just missed down to the proud mileage runner/VDB expert who takes a bow (no disrespect here - it's just a different behavior type) for making 1K on the absolute minimum spend. I can fully understand if UA wants to align a program's benefits with customer yield - unfortunately that isn't what they are doing for any of us at the moment.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 9:00 pm
  #1524  
 
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Yield-based programs are well and good, but BA (who face the most competitive low cost environment in the world IMO relative to size and type of their market) has moved away from it in recent years quite a bit, having realized that such a program essentially makes the low frequency flier more inclined to give their business to Ryanair or Easyjet. Somebody who makes two trips a month into Europe in discounted Y for work now has a decent shot at making BA Silver (which is way better than UA Gold/Plat IMO) whereas 5 to ten years ago they didn't exist in the FF program. I'll bet BA wish they had been more aggressive at marketing to the not-so-frequent-or expensive flyer years ago, before they started switching en masse to the low cost alternatives.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 9:07 pm
  #1525  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by Clarkcc1
Agreed.

I'm guessing the next step is another modification in the boarding process:

1) Chase credit card holders (clearly the most important customer now)
2) General OnePass members (sorry, Mileage Plus)
3) *S/Silver
4) *G/Plat, etc
5) 1K/GS
6) everyone else

Would keep those pesky actual 'frequent fliers' out of the way for the most profitable customer: CC holders and kettles.
Funny you post this today. I just got my MileagePlus Club Card with the special offer of "fee waived for first year" so I could stay in Red Carpet Club despite new CO policy not allowing to pay for renewal with miles.

And, I was shocked by the quality of the materials and program design. Probably the most thoughtfully designed card program I have ever seen.

There is more effort in designing this product by a huge margin than anything I've experienced targeted to 1K's.

It matches what you wrote.
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 9:17 pm
  #1526  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Originally Posted by mitchmu
And, I was shocked by the quality of the materials and program design. Probably the most thoughtfully designed card program I have ever seen.

There is more effort in designing this product by a huge margin than anything I've experienced targeted to 1K's.
I think you need to give Chase all the credit for this...

In my household, my silver wife and 2 GM children have received the offer for the Club card with first year fee waived. I, the 1K, have not received this offer... (I am maxed out on my Chase apps anyway with the recent Sapphire and Fairmont cards...)
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Old Jun 18, 2012, 9:52 pm
  #1527  
 
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Originally Posted by sxf24
This community is populated by a small subset of anonymous customers.
Yep. It'll take United years to figure out my real name.

It's a sad statement that anything that seeks to rate product or services sees value in anonymity. However, there's enough information and context here to give United some idea of how things are perceived in the real world. Not to mention that the real world often looks to FT for stories.
Mike Jacoubowsky is offline  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 7:29 am
  #1528  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
Originally Posted by LarkSFO
I think you need to give Chase all the credit for this...

In my household, my silver wife and 2 GM children have received the offer for the Club card with first year fee waived. I, the 1K, have not received this offer... (I am maxed out on my Chase apps anyway with the recent Sapphire and Fairmont cards...)
True, Chase runs the card, but surely United put some effort into the program as well. Anyway, maybe Chase should take over CO (sorry, I know I'm supposed to refer to them as UA now). That might be an improvement.
FlyWorld is offline  
Old Jun 19, 2012, 12:04 pm
  #1529  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Originally Posted by pdx1M
Even GS buy down with some frequency. The reality that other than the uber-rich (who are probably flying Netjets or the like) pretty much all travelers buy a mix of tickets - GS just buy enough expensive ones to get UA's apparent attention (although my sense at the moment is that they'd rather not give GS much in benefits either but that's a separate discussion). This is why I think UA would have been much better advised when they were revamping MP to actually move to a yield based program of some sort. At the moment GS is all or nothing. It leaves out in the cold someone like you who perhaps is close to GS but not quite meeting their hurdle. 1K covers everything from the GS who just missed down to the proud mileage runner/VDB expert who takes a bow (no disrespect here - it's just a different behavior type) for making 1K on the absolute minimum spend. I can fully understand if UA wants to align a program's benefits with customer yield - unfortunately that isn't what they are doing for any of us at the moment.
well stated-we are all seeking transparency, truth in communications & relationships with those service purveyors we choose to spend steadily with.
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 3:11 pm
  #1530  
 
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Posts: 1,732
Interesting. I'll be watching!

(snip)
In keeping with its usual practice, United will issue second-quarter investor guidance in the coming days to reflect how sales and costs have impacted its performance over the past three months. That release, which could come as early as Wednesday, is likely to include new estimates for United's overall seating capacity, how expensive jet fuel has been, and how revenue has held up, say the people familiar with the matter - all of which will impact overall results.
(snip)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hedges...194422293.html
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