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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old Jun 14, 2012, 5:54 pm
  #1426  
 
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Originally Posted by Clarkcc1
Thanks for a great post! This sums up my opinion perfectly.

Somebody flamed me in another thread for looking forward to seeing (my expectation) of carnage in revenue #s for Q2/3. I admit I probably overestimated the short-term impact of all this as a lot of travel was already booked for Q2. However lots of biz travel is still last minute, and if that traffic went to AA and others, it will be seen in Q2.

Me personally I am burning up my UA miles. Haven't given them a cent since January - but enjoying fairly good domestic redemption during peak periods over the summer and holidays.

All revenue tickets since have gone to AA ($6K worth) and enjoying the 100% upg rate as EXP ^
Carnage in revenue is the only hope for things to improve. If the financial metrics are good, then this is what the future is going to look like. I'm with you.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 7:54 pm
  #1427  
 
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Originally Posted by Clarkcc1

Thanks for a great post! This sums up my opinion perfectly.

Somebody flamed me in another thread for looking forward to seeing (my expectation) of carnage in revenue #s for Q2/3. I admit I probably overestimated the short-term impact of all this as a lot of travel was already booked for Q2. However lots of biz travel is still last minute, and if that traffic went to AA and others, it will be seen in Q2.

Me personally I am burning up my UA miles. Haven't given them a cent since January - but enjoying fairly good domestic redemption during peak periods over the summer and holidays.

All revenue tickets since have gone to AA ($6K worth) and enjoying the 100% upg rate as EXP ^
In the second paragraph of your post you wrote "I admit I probably overestimated the short-term impact of all this as a lot of travel was already booked for Q2. However lots of biz travel is still last minute, and if that traffic went to AA and others, it will be seen in Q2."

You might not be incorrect or premature. This is because there is another financial statement, other than the income statement, that will disclose whether there is a major decline in cash. The cash measurement statement is called the "Statement of Cash Flows" and is part of the overall financial statements.

Although there may have been a lot of business travel previously booked, which will be matched with income and expenses during the second quarter, the Statement of Cash Flows shows money coming in and money going out and beginning cash and ending cash.

If the ending cash balance at 6/30/2012 is markedly less than the beginning cash at 3/31/2012, there is a good chance that the overall behavior of the new UA management had a negative effect on the second quarter and on the company as a whole.

Clearly, there are a lot of unhappy elites and many have abandoned UA because of the shabby treatment of loyal elites, not even counting the condescending statement made by John Rainey when he gave that "regrettable" speech in May of this year.

The second quarter UA financial statements will be available on line about the middle of July at this site:

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-ed...&hidefilings=0

After you get to the site, you will see that it is the United Continental Holdings, Inc page that shows all SEC filings by United.

Scroll down until you see the 10Q. Click on that item in the portion that says "Inter Active data." Next click on Financial Statements, then click on Statement of Cash Flows. You will be able to see components of cash in and cash out.

This is a public document and the public is allowed to view the filings of pubic companies.

As is sometimes said, "the proof is in the pudding." In this instance, the proof will be in the Statement of Cash Flows for the quarter ended 6/30/2012 and how it was or was not affected by the new UA management's contempt for over entitled elites.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 10:44 pm
  #1428  
 
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Originally Posted by Beerman92
I think it may be time for someone to do their - route network - 787 - deep breathing exercises.
+1

I haven't seen UA Insider on here in months. Since this (so stated) isn't a UA employee, maybe the better question is does s/he have any relationship with UA where renumeration directly or indirectly is involved. Given the tone I hope not otherwise I would never fly another mile on UA again, even if I had to do 3 connections iAd-sfo
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 10:48 pm
  #1429  
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Originally Posted by DCEsquire
I haven't seen UA Insider on here in months.
They posted in this very thread on May 21. LINK
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 10:50 pm
  #1430  
 
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Originally Posted by tom911
They posted in this very thread on May 21. LINK
Thanks for the link! My bad. Let's call it about a month ago. I forgot. I think it was largely criticized as major spin if you see the follow up. I do appreciate the reminder however.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 10:59 pm
  #1431  
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Originally Posted by DCEsquire

+1

I haven't seen UA Insider on here in months.
You mean the staffer who assured everyone in March the long phone waits were 'temporary glitches" and that kettles were NOT being sold upgrades ahead of over-entitled Elites clearing using their now worthless SWUs? THAT staffer?

Well 2 posts in 3 weeks shows they are too embarrassed to show their face here on FT after howling fibs like the above.

I spent 2 hours last week 150 minutes - I swear this is true - on the phone to UA re a pretty simple and flexible in dates and routing award booking, that they could not do in the end. Total waste of both our time and their 800 long distance call.

Then 1 hours the next day to ADD a city to an existing award. At the end of that 90 minutes the staffer said "computer is not allowing it".

I asked why - "too many MPM, wrong routing, too many segments - we can address all of those?"

The answer was - 'we do not know". This was the alleged 1K elite line. So another wasted call - totally.

Half these waits were while my agent was talking to other agents. Seems like no-one in there has a clue these days.

I am sure Aeroflot has better systems than the new UA - it is a farce.

This over-entitled 11 year Million Miler 1K is burning miles like there is no tomorrow, before they double the redemption rates as the latest 'enhancement" we never asked for.

Q2 and Q3 results will be a big wake up call for these carpet baggers.

By Q1 2013 half their top Elites from Q1 2012 will have jumped ship I am guessing. Brilliant race to the bottom business plan.

Fill the planes with $100 a seat Kettles and then ask "where did we go wrong?"

.

Last edited by ozstamps; Jun 15, 2012 at 9:53 am Reason: 150 minute math!
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 3:03 am
  #1432  
 
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Originally Posted by ozstamps
You mean the staffer who assured everyone in March the long phone waits were 'temporary glitches" and that kettles were NOT being sold upgrades ahead of over-entitled Elites clearing using their now worthless SWUs? THAT staffer?

Well 2 posts in 3 weeks shows they are too embarrassed to show their face here on FT after howling fibs like the above.

I spent 2 hours last week 180 minutes - I swear this is true - on the phone to UA re a pretty simple and flexible in dates and routing award booking, that they could not do in the end. Total waste of both our time and their 800 long distance call.

Then 1 hours the next day to ADD a city to an existing award. At the end of that 90 minutes the staffer said "computer is not allowing it".

I asked why - "too many MPM, wrong routing, too many segments - we can address all of those?"

The answer was - 'we do not know". This was the alleged 1K elite line. So another wasted call - totally.

Half these waits were while my agent was talking to other agents. Seems like no-one in there has a clue these days.

I am sure Aeroflot has better systems than the new UA - it is a farce.

This over-entitled 11 year Million Miler 1K is burning miles like there is no tomorrow, before they double the redemption rates as the latest 'enhancement" we never asked for.

Q2 and Q3 results will be a big wake up call for these carpet baggers.

By Q1 2013 hald their top Elites from Q1 2012 will have jumped ship I am guessing. Briilliant race to the bottom business plan.

Fill the planes with $100 a seat Kettles and then ask "where did we go wrong?"

.
Again... love it.

Wondering if the ship at AA is getting full... while I have been 100% on upgrades so far, my SFO-LAX-ORD-SFO MR on Saturday I will likely be sitting in coach most of the time. At least I get an exit row, free drink and snack ^

I have talked to other sickened/fed-up 'ex-over-entitled-UA-elites' on AA flights recently so I cannot fathom how this won't be noticed in the upcoming revenue #s. EVEN if 2Q, 3Q don't seem that far off, they won't be able to command the extra revenue from kettles after they sit in F once or twice and us ex-multi-flights-per-month fliers have totally or nearly abandoned the airline. And if you lose the inter-continental premium cabin dollars too - you're done, senior! No mas United. No, gracias SMI/J, adios :P
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 8:07 am
  #1433  
 
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Well, everyone has their opinions and experiences good and bad, but in my travel from EWR to DEL, from IAH to EWR and PHL, and DEN to LAX this year, the service has been good, and I have scored upgrades most of the time (and I am not GS), and have had exit row seating the remainder of the time, and have had few problems on the phone. This does not mean everybody has such good experiences, but my sense, from sitting up front with GS folks and other "elites", that they have not been experiencing the nightmares. While there's no excuse for such nightmares, and no law against victims using this board to complain, it is not the rule. There are those who are, quite frankly, been treated pretty well, when considering that two large and different carriers merged.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:15 am
  #1434  
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Originally Posted by ag205071
in my travel from EWR to DEL, from IAH to EWR and PHL, and DEN to LAX this year, the service has been good, and I have scored upgrades most of the time
I am led to believe from several indications that you are pmCO flyer.
If I'm right, then many good things happened to you as a result of the takeover of UA. You got SWUs. You can earn Confimed upgrades. Your route network expanded nicely.
Originally Posted by ag205071
have had exit row seating the remainder of the time, and have had few problems on the phone.
I'm glad that you were able to get ExitRows, although, in truth that's really not much of a biggie for anyone higher than Gold who books a bit forward. Is it now??
Perhaps you've not had problems on the phone, because you're simply USED TO the phone service pmCO provided?
Originally Posted by ag205071
my sense, from sitting up front with GS folks and other "elites", that they have not been experiencing the nightmares.
I look at your routes that you chose to share with us and I note that the liklihood of these pax with whom you've been seated being pmCO flyers is extraordinarily high. See above.
Originally Posted by ag205071
There are those who are, quite frankly, been treated pretty well, when considering that two large and different carriers merged.
Many, many CO flyers share your feelings completely. VERY VERY few of the UA elites share them at all. This, sadly, was NOT a merger, it was a takeover of United by a large, fortress-hubbed, regional carrier.

Dave
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:23 am
  #1435  
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Originally Posted by bseller
Many, many CO flyers share your feelings completely. VERY VERY few of the UA elites share them at all. This, sadly, was NOT a merger, it was a takeover of United by a large, fortress-hubbed, regional carrier.
This is an interesting perspective that is frequently repeated on the forum. Regardless of its validity, it is saddening that certain people think so much of themselves and/or so little of others.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:25 am
  #1436  
 
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Originally Posted by bseller

snip snip

Many, many CO flyers share your feelings completely. VERY VERY few of the UA elites share them at all. This, sadly, was NOT a merger, it was a takeover of United by a large, fortress-hubbed, regional carrier.

Dave
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When all the facts and circumstances are considered, there is no doubt that the last sentence shown above is true.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:28 am
  #1437  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
This is an interesting perspective that is frequently repeated on the forum.
I agree, it is often seen here. I genuinely wish that it weren't - but that would be a suspension of disbelief, IMO.
Originally Posted by sxf24
Regardless of its validity, it is saddening that certain people think so much of themselves and/or so little of others.
Please tell me - to WHOM do you refer?
Dave
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:31 am
  #1438  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
This is an interesting perspective that is frequently repeated on the forum. Regardless of its validity, it is saddening that certain people think so much of themselves and/or so little of others.
Many of us fly regularly and have been impacted negatively by the changes.

Perhaps your opinion and situation are *different*.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:34 am
  #1439  
 
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Originally Posted by ag205071
Well, everyone has their opinions and experiences good and bad, but in my travel from EWR to DEL, from IAH to EWR and PHL, and DEN to LAX this year, the service has been good, and I have scored upgrades most of the time (and I am not GS), and have had exit row seating the remainder of the time, and have had few problems on the phone. This does not mean everybody has such good experiences, but my sense, from sitting up front with GS folks and other "elites", that they have not been experiencing the nightmares. While there's no excuse for such nightmares, and no law against victims using this board to complain, it is not the rule. There are those who are, quite frankly, been treated pretty well, when considering that two large and different carriers merged.
It's great to hear story's like this, in fact refreshing. It shows there's hope.

Now if they could fix many of the exceptions to the rule, and there might be many, we'd have ourselves an airline. Coupled with that however, they need to be much more transparent with how the programs are supposed to be working. Until then, we only have what's published to work from.

COMMUNICATION is key. For employees to be better informed/trained and customers to be more knowledgeable/fulfilled.
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Old Jun 15, 2012, 9:48 am
  #1440  
 
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FFP and Loyalty programs- different goals

Originally Posted by Fredd
For whatever reason, UA is certainly publicizing that in full-page Hemispheres ads and on departure-gate screens.

Reasons can be found in an article titled The airline frequent flyer programme: for love and money, in Airline Leader, advertising "independent coverage of global aviation news and analysis for airline executives."

One of the major claims in the article is the revenue value of credit cards to airlines. For that reason alone, it would seem to make sense for UA and any other airline to maintain a competitive loyalty program, or at least the pretense of one.

One excerpt from the fairly long article...
The reason some of this doesn't make sense here is that people equate FFPs with elite status, and the two are not all that related. The vast majority of credit card spend, and mileage redemption, occurs at the non-elite level. From the credit card company's perspective, the non-elite is likely a more attractive customer than the elite. And once you swallow that, a lot of things make sense. With the credit card companies so undeniably important to the airlines, the extent to which the FFPs are created/influenced by them becomes a very telling issue here.

Because they don't care about elites. At least not until issues become so bad that the airline's finances make it clear that change in direction is required. But aside from that, they are going to craft programs aimed towards the $$$ numbers spent flying, not the profit numbers.
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