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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old Jun 26, 2012, 7:06 pm
  #1531  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: TX
Programs: UA 1K, Million Miler, BA
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1k treated right

Another 1k treated right for the most part. Upgraded four of four flights this month and love free changes on reward tix.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 6:23 am
  #1532  
 
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Originally Posted by stopdiabetes

Another 1k treated right for the most part. Upgraded four of four flights this month and love free changes on reward tix.
With all due respect, I hope you realize one probable reason for your upgrade success.

Thousands of UA elites abandoned UA and took the status match at AA. Of course, this removes those elites competing for upgrades. Consequently, your being treated "right" by UA is merely a fallout from fewer customers competing for the same seats.

As to free changes on reward tickets for 1Ks, this is nothing new. It is a common occurrence for high elites with most legacy carriers.

I am happy for you that you remain satisfied with UA. On the other hand, many UA customers are not happy with the new UA management as is obvious from reading this forum.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 8:02 am
  #1533  
 
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
With all due respect, I hope you realize one probable reason for your upgrade success.

Thousands of UA elites abandoned UA and took the status match at AA. Of course, this removes those elites competing for upgrades. Consequently, your being treated "right" by UA is merely a fallout from fewer customers competing for the same seats.

-
It's interesting. I just got a promo in the mail from AA. Wonder if this is targeted....not sure they would know I fly UA. I don't think I've ever gotten a thing from UA interestingly enough.

I decided not to take AA up on the challenge...but now am approaching 1k and don't want to trigger the GPUs early...is there anything I can do on AA to get matching or status other than to do the 25k in miles?

Last edited by DCEsquire; Jul 15, 2012 at 8:30 am
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 8:09 am
  #1534  
 
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Dear Mr CFO: having been tempted down the over-entitled path of UA, I am happy to report that my 4 recent flights with your product have cured me of this temptation. Oh, and city of Denver? I know it isn't your fault but the latest threat in our house for goes along the lines of 'stop that or we will make you connect via Denver...'
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 8:14 am
  #1535  
 
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
Thousands of UA elites abandoned UA and took the status match at AA. Of course, this removes those elites competing for upgrades. Consequently, your being treated "right" by UA is merely a fallout from fewer customers competing for the same seats.
This is what I love about FT. One person throws out "thousands of elites have abandoned UA" and it's now a "fact".
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 8:32 am
  #1536  
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
With all due respect, I hope you realize one probable reason for your upgrade success.

Thousands of UA elites abandoned UA and took the status match at AA. Of course, this removes those elites competing for upgrades. Consequently, your being treated "right" by UA is merely a fallout from fewer customers competing for the same seats.

As to free changes on reward tickets for 1Ks, this is nothing new. It is a common occurrence for high elites with most legacy carriers.

I am happy for you that you remain satisfied with UA. On the other hand, many UA customers are not happy with the new UA management as is obvious from reading this forum.
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With all due respect, you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Where are you getting this "thousands" figure from that have "abandoned" UA, may I ask?

Add me to the list of people who has been consistently upgraded on all expected flights since 3/3, never had to wait more than a minute any time I called the 1K line and have had terrific rebooking experiences during the IRROPs I encountered.

Now if they could get the front-line PMUA employee based properly trained so they can perform changes for me as quickly as their PMCO counterparts, which is incredibly time consuming given the complexity of the system I'd be completely happy. In the meantime I have to be very careful about who I ask for help from, and how I word my questions to achieve an acceptable result.

Originally Posted by njcommodore
This is what I love about FT. One person throws out "thousands of elites have abandoned UA" and it's now a "fact".
^^^
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 8:32 am
  #1537  
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Originally Posted by njcommodore
This is what I love about FT. One person throws out "thousands of elites have abandoned UA" and it's now a "fact".
When Q2 results come out and likely show UA greatly trailing key competitors in PRASM, will you believe it then?
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 8:39 am
  #1538  
 
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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ek-topics.html
He admits that they didn’t do a good enough job with “soft skills training” – teaching staff how to deal with customers. And he is hearing it consistently from customers: “it’s not the what, but the how” – as in, how United staff deal with customers.?
I think Rainy's statement is a prime example of Hand's assessment.

Further, never diss your customers on tape. He may have been a hero to those in the room but he didn't have the larger picture in mind nor truly taken to heart the message of Jeff Ss' pre departure videos.

In a business operating on a <4% margin, you can't afford to make too many people mad.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 8:42 am
  #1539  
 
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Originally Posted by DCEsquire
It's interesting. I just got a promo in the mail from AA. Wonder if this is targeted....not sure they would know I fly UA. I don't think I've ever gotten a thing from UA interestingly enough.

I decided not to take AA up on the challenge...but now am approaching 1k and don't want to trigger the GPUs early...is there anything I can do on AA to get matching or status other than to do the 25k in miles?
I would not worry about triggering the GPUs early. Apparently, UA is aware of this problem - where people are not flying UA so as to delay the trigger point on GPUs. I am guessing UA is losing business because of this.

A simple call to the MileagePlus desk will get them extended to the end of the year. Others have reported this, and I just did it with some GPUs that were expiring in September - now extended through the end of December.

My guess is that UA will change this in the future and make them expire at the end of the year. On AA they run until the following Feb - a year later - so UA is not competitive here.

But fly UA if you need to and don't worry about the GPUs.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 8:50 am
  #1540  
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Originally Posted by cova
My guess is that UA will change this in the future and make them expire at the end of the year. On AA they run until the following Feb - a year later - so UA is not competitive here.
I've heard from many different MP reps that this is a one-year only, transition year benefit that won't be repeated. YMMV.

There are now many different areas where UA is not competitive with AA. I won't be surprised if this stays as policy. Thus, I and many others will shift business to other carriers to delay 1K crossing til December.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 9:09 am
  #1541  
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC
When Q2 results come out and likely show UA greatly trailing key competitors in PRASM, will you believe it then?
I wouldn't, and I'd love to hear how you could reach that conclusion from that metric alone. Do you believe it?
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 9:16 am
  #1542  
 
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Originally Posted by star_world
I wouldn't, and I'd love to hear how you could reach that conclusion from that metric alone. Do you believe it?
Wouldn't a decline in that metric imply a decline close to departure, full/high-fare bookings (which would imply people are booking their business travel away from UA)?
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 9:40 am
  #1543  
 
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
Thousands of UA elites abandoned UA and took the status match at AA. Of course, this removes those elites competing for upgrades. Consequently, your being treated "right" by UA is merely a fallout from fewer customers competing for the same seats.
It's only two data points but:

1) I recently had a conversation with a pmUA FA about the state of the airline and brought up the AA status match. She lamented that they'd had a noticable drop in repeat business travelers and that F was increasingly full of people who "seemed to be up there for the first time." Whether this is because of people leaving the airline, a result of the TOD upgrade issue, or just an outlier observation from one FA is unclear.

2) I've done a fair amount of hub-to-hub flying this year. I'm Silver but in the last few weeks I've had two UDUs clear on hub / hub flights on discounted non-refundable tickets. One was a 757, so that doesn't surprise me too much given the size of the F cabin, but one was on an A320. On the flights I've not cleared on, I've generally been in the top dozen on the upgrade list. Prior to 3/3, I'd have been in the 40's or 50's (or even 60's) on these routes as a Silver. Yes, that shift is in part due to the people who qualified for 2011 on DEQMs falling out of the system at the end of February, but I can't imagine that 75% of 2011 elites didn't requalify for 2012.

Not saying all these people went to AA, but my personal observations suggest something has changed with respect to elite loads in the last quarter or so.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 10:03 am
  #1544  
 
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Originally Posted by entropy
that's because the benefits that 1Ks get (especially SWU) UA thinks of as "losing money".
(e.g. a 1K will spend SWU instead of cash on a business class seat). They don't think of it as "a 1K will fly us instead of (pick almost any int'l airline, they're mostly better/cheaper) on their leisure trip with the wife, buy a much more expensive fare to use the SWU, etc."

instead they think they're losing a full J fare. dumb.
UA's C & F class products are good, but they do not hold a candle compared to the likes of LH, SQ, LX, NH, and TG, and experienced flyers will book paid C or F on these carriers.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 10:12 am
  #1545  
 
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC
When Q2 results come out and likely show UA greatly trailing key competitors in PRASM, will you believe it then?
No. 2 different revenue management systems combind, need a solid years worth of combined data to really be able to optomize both th networks and the adjustments. Sure, they can extrapolate te data from 1 or both of the old systems and apply it to the currnt/future planning, but doubling the number of hubs with new connecting points and different flow of passengers would make a "best guess" scenerio not all that perfect. And when you are talkingabout the difference in just acouple of % points difference is RASM increase, hard data vs "best guess" can surely account for at least 2% points on a predictive model wherehumna behavior (not all that accurately predicted to begin with) is a major variable. That doesn't even account forall of the new feederpaths that UA now has that weren't there before.

For accurate asbolute numbers, I would stat with 3rd quarter of 2013, and for a relative number to previous yar's performace, I would use those results as a baseline and fair comparison using only a relative number (which is what you are comparing, growth to previous year vs other airlines similar numbers) would take 1 year beyond that, 3rd quarter of 2014. Of course if we had accurate absolute numbers, then the 3rd quarter of 2013 should be accurate enough.

Last edited by fastair; Jul 15, 2012 at 10:21 am
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