United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".
May 21, 2012, 3:45 pm
#751
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Colorado
Programs: United MM (formerly 1K), Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 551
Thanks for posting the link. Here it is in black and white, who the over-entitleds were, it was the Silvers:
"United said Mr. Rainey was specifically referring to a change that makes it more difficult for the lowest of the elite frequent-flier levels — customers who earn 25,000 miles a year — to nab seats in the Economy Plus coach section, which has added legroom. In some markets, lower-level elites got so many of the Economy Plus seats that there were no seats left there for late-booking, high-fare, high-status passengers. United used to let the lowest elite level reserve Economy Plus seats at booking. But as of March 3, the lowest tier of elite level members can only reserve Economy Plus seats for free at check-in."
They need to step up the damage control a bit, though.
"United said Mr. Rainey was specifically referring to a change that makes it more difficult for the lowest of the elite frequent-flier levels — customers who earn 25,000 miles a year — to nab seats in the Economy Plus coach section, which has added legroom. In some markets, lower-level elites got so many of the Economy Plus seats that there were no seats left there for late-booking, high-fare, high-status passengers. United used to let the lowest elite level reserve Economy Plus seats at booking. But as of March 3, the lowest tier of elite level members can only reserve Economy Plus seats for free at check-in."
They need to step up the damage control a bit, though.
May 21, 2012, 3:45 pm
#752
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus(ick)
Posts: 296
When I had my trial Silver, It was all E+ and 6 trips in F!
I'm not so much bothered by some of the changes, as I am with really bad attitude that has accompanied them as well as the deciet and lack of communication since 3/3.
And foisting that horrible system on their employees? Jeez....
May 21, 2012, 3:46 pm
#753
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 1,155
Um, please don't attempt to speak for everyone, at least not me.
Here are some of my better experiences:
- Intra-Asia UDU
- Better food
- More E+
- Much better award search engine and flexible routing rules.
[Unduly personalized remark deleted by Moderator.]
Can you elaborate? Did anyone at UA ever promise to you that you'll get SWUs and CR1s forever, and the MileagePlus program will never be changed? 
[Unduly personalized remark deleted by Moderator].
Here are some of my better experiences:
- Intra-Asia UDU
- Better food
- More E+
- Much better award search engine and flexible routing rules.
I have jumped ship to other Star Alliance airlines and Air France.
Rainey and Smi$ek are liars.
I will not set foot on UA/CO flights again unless they give us back our 3 SWUs, CR1s, Premier Exec Star Gold lifetime status (now it's only Gold) and 100% bonus miles.
Signed
a fuming over-entitled pre-merger Million Miler
Rainey and Smi$ek are liars.
I will not set foot on UA/CO flights again unless they give us back our 3 SWUs, CR1s, Premier Exec Star Gold lifetime status (now it's only Gold) and 100% bonus miles.
Signed
a fuming over-entitled pre-merger Million Miler
[Unduly personalized remark deleted by Moderator].
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; May 21, 2012 at 4:20 pm Reason: Per FT Rules.
May 21, 2012, 3:47 pm
#754
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SFO, LON
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, Bonvoy Tit, Hilton Dia etc etc
Posts: 2,354
Thanks for posting the link. Here it is in black and white, who the over-entitleds were, it was the Silvers:
"United said Mr. Rainey was specifically referring to a change that makes it more difficult for the lowest of the elite frequent-flier levels — customers who earn 25,000 miles a year — to nab seats in the Economy Plus coach section, which has added legroom. In some markets, lower-level elites got so many of the Economy Plus seats that there were no seats left there for late-booking, high-fare, high-status passengers. United used to let the lowest elite level reserve Economy Plus seats at booking. But as of March 3, the lowest tier of elite level members can only reserve Economy Plus seats for free at check-in."
They need to step up the damage control a bit, though.
"United said Mr. Rainey was specifically referring to a change that makes it more difficult for the lowest of the elite frequent-flier levels — customers who earn 25,000 miles a year — to nab seats in the Economy Plus coach section, which has added legroom. In some markets, lower-level elites got so many of the Economy Plus seats that there were no seats left there for late-booking, high-fare, high-status passengers. United used to let the lowest elite level reserve Economy Plus seats at booking. But as of March 3, the lowest tier of elite level members can only reserve Economy Plus seats for free at check-in."
They need to step up the damage control a bit, though.
Whether you choose to believe this or not, up to you. IMO, from a C level exec there is little difference between forcing more silvers to pay for E+ and forcing more pax in general to pay for F upgrades. FAPP they are both "over-entitlement corrections" in the same vein. And I'll bet they make more cash from TOD upgrades than they do from E+ sells to Silvers.
Infinity, it seems. I wish my two Y trips in B fare class had turned out better from an UG standpoint ... although to be fair one was on the dreaded SFO-IAD.
May 21, 2012, 3:48 pm
#755
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OAK
Programs: UA Gold MM / AS MVP Gold
Posts: 2,504
Their new IT system is either a complete failure or.... it is just working as designed to increase ancillary revenue, and therefore there is nothing to correct. I have not had ANY upgrades automatically process in the post-3/3 world without direct intervention by either UA Insider or a 1K desk CSR.
And I definitely do appreciate the help that Shannon and Carlos have provided to me under PM, but we shouldn't need to PM them every time in order to get upgrades processed correctly.
I'm also not convinced that the myriad IT problems are all a result of SHARES. (I mean doesn't US Airways use SHARES too???) In fact, the problems are just as likely to be buried in the thousands of lines of code for all the various software programs that interact with the SHARES system rather than the core reservations system itself.
Last edited by amartin1979; May 21, 2012 at 3:55 pm Reason: added note on SHARES
May 21, 2012, 3:49 pm
#756
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
I wonder if the demands for customer care kits and $300 vouchers for miniscule problems have anything to do with it? No other dopmestic airline gave away big vouchers for broken reading lights.
May 21, 2012, 3:49 pm
#757
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Planet Awesome
Programs: Delta Gold, United MM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 234
Thinking about getting this t-shirt for my next United flight.
May 21, 2012, 3:50 pm
#758
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond
Posts: 60,174
May 21, 2012, 3:53 pm
#759
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus(ick)
Posts: 296
All that's left are the front liners who are mostly still trying their best, but are burnt out and hamstrung by the new policies.
IMO....
May 21, 2012, 3:56 pm
#761
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 522
Shannon,
As many have said, you really do seem like a wonderfully nice person, and we feel sorry for you trying to calm the flames in this firestorm. It seems obvious to me that management is now telling you what to say here on FT. But I have some bad news - your posts are now starting to not only not calm the flames, but you are fanning them - and making the fire worse.
How many thousands of posts here now talk of United being shady, lying, deceiftful, untransparent....
No - there is a lot of interest in the statment that Elites are over-entitled. And the feeling that that statement matches up very well with the culture we are seeing day in day out on the new UA and service at airports, on planes and in particular in relation to upgrades. You did not even address the point that has resulted in this thread having 40,000 page views in 3 days.
It's new to us! Are we missing something? Reduced upgrades for all elites. No1K Voice. No 1K Line. No 1K check in. Reduced milage for Gold. Reduced GPUs. Where is the greater access to benefits for higher elites.
I've not seen a single thread on FT since 3/3 stating that access to E+ is an issue for elites.
Yet, United does nothing to improve transperancy and honesty. Just more spin and lies.
12 months to explain to your best customers how upgrades work? How the hell can that take 12 months. It could be done by the end of this week. You won't have any customers left in 12 months.
As many have said, you really do seem like a wonderfully nice person, and we feel sorry for you trying to calm the flames in this firestorm. It seems obvious to me that management is now telling you what to say here on FT. But I have some bad news - your posts are now starting to not only not calm the flames, but you are fanning them - and making the fire worse.
How many thousands of posts here now talk of United being shady, lying, deceiftful, untransparent....
Originally Posted by UA Insider
Hi Everyone, we see there’s a lot of interest in our recent presentation at Bank of America.
Hi Everyone, we see there’s a lot of interest in our recent presentation at Bank of America.
To clarify, the message that we’re investing in our Premier program and ensuring greater access to elite benefits at higher elite tiers is not a new one.
An example of this is when our Premier tiers get access to Economy Plus seating. This change has materialized into a meaningfully better experience for our Gold members and above. In fact, in markets that have the highest proportion of Premier flyers, a higher percentage of Premier Platinum and Premier Gold members are getting access to Economy Plus (comparing February 2012 to April 2012, and comparing April 2011 to April 2012), while the percentage of Premier Silver members sitting in Economy Plus hasn’t decreased meaningfully. Some of those Premier Silver members may be choosing to purchase Economy Plus seating, but, in general, Economy Plus seating remains available at time of check-in.
While John was not referring to upgrades, we know they remain a hot topic, especially with respect to selling upgrades.
In the coming year, we will be adding more transparency to the upgrade process, and will also be making important improvements to the upgrade system itself.
May 21, 2012, 3:59 pm
#762
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
+1
Their new IT system is either a complete failure or.... it is just working as designed to increase ancillary revenue, and therefore there is nothing to correct. I have not had ANY upgrades automatically process in the post-3/3 world without direct intervention by either UA Insider or a 1K desk CSR.
And I definitely do appreciate the help that Shannon and Carlos have provided to me under PM, but we shouldn't need to PM them every time in order to get upgrades processed correctly.
I'm also not convinced that the myriad IT problems are all a result of SHARES. (I mean doesn't US Airways use SHARES too???) In fact, the problems are just as likely to be buried in the thousands of lines of code for all the various software programs that interact with the SHARES system rather than the core reservations system itself.
Their new IT system is either a complete failure or.... it is just working as designed to increase ancillary revenue, and therefore there is nothing to correct. I have not had ANY upgrades automatically process in the post-3/3 world without direct intervention by either UA Insider or a 1K desk CSR.
And I definitely do appreciate the help that Shannon and Carlos have provided to me under PM, but we shouldn't need to PM them every time in order to get upgrades processed correctly.
I'm also not convinced that the myriad IT problems are all a result of SHARES. (I mean doesn't US Airways use SHARES too???) In fact, the problems are just as likely to be buried in the thousands of lines of code for all the various software programs that interact with the SHARES system rather than the core reservations system itself.
None of these problems are new for me. They are identical to CO travel experience before 3/3.
May 21, 2012, 4:00 pm
#763
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Växjö, SE/Washington, DC
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1K (2MM)
Posts: 1,159
My problem is Shannon's response, and I don't blame her, is what the company is telling her she must say, and I say that because this is what was posted on Facebook in regards to someone else mentioning the speech:
United @Steffen, The message presented at the recent Bank of America conference is not new. We’re investing in our Premier program and ensuring greater access to elite benefits at higher elite tiers.
2 hours ago · Like
United @Steffen, The message presented at the recent Bank of America conference is not new. We’re investing in our Premier program and ensuring greater access to elite benefits at higher elite tiers.
2 hours ago · Like
May 21, 2012, 4:01 pm
#764
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington DC
Programs: Former 1k, Lifetime UA Gold, Starwood Gold; Avis Preferred; Hertz Gold
Posts: 1,732
I've been thinking about this whole statement and the PR response today. Then I remembered I saw a great video about creating a culture of respect and treating others like you want to be treated yourself!
How about it United? Perhaps time to follow your own advice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmQUVULG9q4
It's worth watching it again. Hopefully the PR team, CEO and CFO will do the same.
How about it United? Perhaps time to follow your own advice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmQUVULG9q4
It's worth watching it again. Hopefully the PR team, CEO and CFO will do the same.
May 21, 2012, 4:08 pm
#765
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
No question reading Shannon's post that it's all about Gold & above these days. However, I'd take her to task on the idea that a Gold is better off now than last year. 50% RDM vs 100% alone is a pretty big hit, and I never had issues in the past obtaining E+ seats (except once or twice during irrops).
I feel for anyone thinking there's a point to Silver these days. United, and most other airlines, are teaching people to paddle (Kayak). The possible downside (to COdbaUA) for strapping the Silvers to the wing is that Golds & Plats & 1Ks aren't typically born that way; the first 49,999 miles are either in back or benefits purchased a la carte.
COdbaUA likely thinks that makes sense, as long as you can buy your way out, a la carte. Trouble is, a lot of businesses won't pay for a la carte options for their traveling employees, so the more carefully you align your pay-for programs with what people actually use, the more you alienate the <49,999 mile business person.
I feel for anyone thinking there's a point to Silver these days. United, and most other airlines, are teaching people to paddle (Kayak). The possible downside (to COdbaUA) for strapping the Silvers to the wing is that Golds & Plats & 1Ks aren't typically born that way; the first 49,999 miles are either in back or benefits purchased a la carte.
COdbaUA likely thinks that makes sense, as long as you can buy your way out, a la carte. Trouble is, a lot of businesses won't pay for a la carte options for their traveling employees, so the more carefully you align your pay-for programs with what people actually use, the more you alienate the <49,999 mile business person.
I was a 1K at one point. Dropped to a silver for a couple years as I wasn't traveling much, and now I'm back to traveling again. I'll hit 50K no problem and probably 75k. How much of that business is UA going to get? Well last year, it probably would have been all of it. This year: It all goes to US except when they don't go where I need to go. Needless to say, I only have 1 international trip planned on UA this year and that's only because I HAVE to fly them due to policy. Not happy it ended up being on a Z/D ticket too.
The only redeeming thing about it is I could upgrade to F and credit it to another *A carrier.Anyone have a screen for a t-shirt for Former Over-entitled UA customer?
UA Insider aka Shannon said this on the very thread you're posting on, which forms the basis for the whole post, essentially.
Whether you choose to believe this or not, up to you. IMO, from a C level exec there is little difference between forcing more silvers to pay for E+ and forcing more pax in general to pay for F upgrades. FAPP they are both "over-entitlement corrections" in the same vein. And I'll bet they make more cash from TOD upgrades than they do from E+ sells to Silvers.
Whether you choose to believe this or not, up to you. IMO, from a C level exec there is little difference between forcing more silvers to pay for E+ and forcing more pax in general to pay for F upgrades. FAPP they are both "over-entitlement corrections" in the same vein. And I'll bet they make more cash from TOD upgrades than they do from E+ sells to Silvers.
Infinity, it seems. I wish my two Y trips in B fare class had turned out better from an UG standpoint ... although to be fair one was on the dreaded SFO-IAD.
UA had the gall to try to upsell E+ to me on a $5800 international Y fare to ICN.
Last edited by iluv2fly; May 21, 2012 at 7:48 pm Reason: merge