747FC

Well, I have been proved wrong. Care to share more about your denial and appeals process, and how the FOIA request helped?

Yoshi212

You really need to step back and relax a bit about this. It's a frustrating and dumbfounding system and you're caught in one of the snags at the moment and only going to drive yourself nuts. Welcome to Dealing with gov't agencies 101.

You filed the appeal. Now you wait. Do not get a lawyer involved, yet as you'll probably set yourself back on the list and further complicate the situation. Do not reapply or try to get into another program. The only thing you could try is reaching out to your Congressional reps asking for assistance. Keep your request concise and factual though.

I had to appeal my initial rejection which basically came down to the interviewer not liking my answer when he asked how I felt about TSA operations compared to security at TLV airport. Took a few weeks but I was approved via the appeal and then joined Nexus 3 years later. Remember, these programs are a privilege extended to those that fit security criteria but it's also run by a government office...

You could do FOIA requests but I doubt you're going to get little to no info as a gov't security agency isn't going to disclose that info anyways. And DHS is notorious for their blocking of information. Their own OIG made public statements about their failures a few weeks ago.

JonNYC

If you scroll up a few posts you'll see my mention of it, as well in previous pages and other thread(s) where I've posted some of the details-- but right upthread is the most recent I posted about it:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27775224-post163.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27800849-post168.html

But the process is neither quick nor all that simple, I used a lawyer to coordinate everything and it took well over a year-- closer to two. Still, in my opinion, if there's something lurking in one's records that they don't know about, could be worth finding out. Especially "in this day and age". My records were heavily redacted, but one could easily get the gist of things.

Well, that actually sounds kind of encouraging-- I had no idea turn-around could ever be that quick!

c2briggs1

Yoshi212: 'I had to appeal my initial rejection which basically came down to the interviewer not liking my answer when he asked how I felt about TSA operations compared to security at TLV airport. Took a few weeks but I was approved via the appeal and then joined Nexus 3 years later.'

Wow, just a couple of weeks huh... That is awesome. You sent an email to the Ombudsman? I keep hearing 6 to 9 months - IF i even get an answer....

Again, its just frustation - I get it its a program etc. I wouldnt be as upset if I had a record or some thing of the other. I just wish I knew the reason, as Other doesnt really tell me anything on what issues I have and how to supposedly fix them.

Either way - definitely a waiting game... all i can do.

Yoshi212

Not to ruin your hopes of "just a few weeks" but this was several years ago when the program was smaller so less workload for the Ombudsman's office and external pressure may have been used to push my case forward a bit.
But you're right that it's a frustrating waiting game ahead of you and good luck.

c2briggs1

Well, CBP responded back to my email - and basically said the decision stands.

'If you were denied because you cannot satisfy CBP that all eligibility requirements are met, the decision stands. CBP may use information from other agencies when making eligibility decisions and is prohibited from releasing other agency information.'

So... I guess I'm SOL.

c2briggs1

Follow-Up Question:

Anyone know the list of agencies used between the conditional approval and approval/denial?

chgoeditor

Based on the clues you've provided, your interview focused on a few people and a few addresses:
1. Someone else who applied using the same address as yours, which you've lived at for 8 years. Do you live in a single-family or multi-family home? Did the names they asked you in connect with that address sound familiar? Have you ever received mail for them? Seen their names on buzzers? Remember them as pas residents?

2. They asked about your parents' address.

3. They asked about your grandparents' address. Did you ever live there?

4. They asked about your uncle.

You say that none of your family members are on the no-fly list and you're certain of that. Are you aware that people often get on the list because of mistaken identity -- and this includes people who do not have Arab names? Can you tell us a bit about your family demographics and what might cause a red flag? Anyone have any arrests for crimes that often cross borders, such as drug distribution? Are all of your immediate and extended family members natural born citizens or are some LPRs or naturalized citizens? Is anyone family member married to an immigrant who may have family members who raise red flags?

c2briggs1

chgoeditor asked:

1. Someone else who applied using the same address as yours, which you've lived at for 8 years. Do you live in a single-family or multi-family home? Did the names they asked you in connect with that address sound familiar? Have you ever received mail for them? Seen their names on buzzers? Remember them as pas residents?

Single family home I bought in 2009. For the names that they asked - there were none that I knew of for my home address. I did disclose that my dad lives with me as well as my sister and brother and gave names.

2. They asked about your parents' address.

My dad's address is mine and my mom's address is my grandparents as she lives with them since they are elderly.

3. They asked about your grandparents' address. Did you ever live there?

Yes, I listed that on the application too. They asked about my uncle and some other gentlemen I didnt know.

4. They asked about your uncle.

Yes they asked if I knew him - of course I told them yes.

You say that none of your family members are on the no-fly list and you're certain of that.

Yes, I am certain. Everyone in my family has a passport.

Are you aware that people often get on the list because of mistaken identity -- and this includes people who do not have Arab names? Can you tell us a bit about your family demographics and what might cause a red flag?

I wasnt aware of that - but African American US citizens. Born and raised in the USA.

Anyone have any arrests for crimes that often cross borders, such as drug distribution?

My dad does have a record (he served some years in jail but got out in the 90s) but nothing to do with immigration or crossing the border. Again, he has a valid passport - not sure if this helps. They didnt ask about his past or anything.

Are all of your immediate and extended family members natural born citizens or are some LPRs or naturalized citizens? Is anyone family member married to an immigrant who may have family members who raise red flags?

Everyone in my family are US Citizens. No spouses from different countries.

Often1

Sorry to say this, but you are living at the same address as a convicted felon. No idea what the felony was, but "some years" back in the '90's might have been a serious crime.

Now at least you have something on which you might focus. We don't know how old you are (so how old you were at the time, what your father's crime was, and any other details such as whether he still on probation or parole, still owes a fine of any kind.

Is there any detail about all of this which you do not know and which might cause a suspicious investigator to reflect on whether you have earned CBP's trust? Again, don't take it wrong, but perhaps a careful sit down with your father?

Yoshi212

Having a passport doesn't means someone isn't on a watch list and there are different lists.

Another consideration is your travel pattern. If you're not going to be traveling internationally and don't have a regular travel pattern DHS may consider you not qualified to have such a privilege. Or if you have traveled with any regularity to specific destinations and/or have flown to "trouble areas".

c2briggs1

Currently 32. I was under 18 when he had his issues. Between the ages of 10 -16 where he was in and out of jail. Drug issues. He owes no more fines. Has a clear police report - had to get one for his job. He is definitely doing the right thing right now.

But the interviewer didn't ask about him in detail. Just asked who I lived with and I told him. There wasn't any other conversation surrounding it.

You can believe when I got the denial - I asked him if he was straight and if he were behind on anything. He assured me the answer was no.

c2briggs1

You know what is funny - given everything that is going on right now - I am going to Dubai in March for a class trip. I was wondering if that had something to do with it.

I go out of the country at least 1 a year. Normally to warmer climate places - Mexico, Brazil, Jamaica, Aruba, just to name a few....

I was thinking because I didnt go anywhere in 2016 - I was doing house work so I skipped the yearly trip - and if my travel pattern was a reason but I read others who said they rarely go out of the country and had no issues.

chgoeditor

Drug possession or drug distribution? Even if he was charged with the intent to distribute, that might raise a red flag.

I've had two GE interviews and they never asked about any of my relatives, so the fact they asked about your uncle also raises a red flag that there might be something connected with him that set off alarms.

I doubt it. Dubai isn't on the list of seven countries, and I have a hard time believe the change in administration has had anything to do with GE approvals -- they're focused on keeping others out.

No, it shouldn't have influenced the decision. I'm sure that in some of the 5 years prior to my first application, I only traveled internationally once a year.

GUWonder

His being behind or on time with paying restitution, fines or whatever isn't what drives a denial of GE like a guilt by association aspect for living with someone with a criminal record may.