Changes to SPG Cash & Points - effective March 05, 2013
Jan 19, 2013, 10:35 pm
#136
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Europe/SEA
Programs: TK E+, Bonvoy LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Dusit Gold
Posts: 1,714
To be honest my recent stay at the Le Meridien Phuket, at $60+4000points per night, when the proper price was over $500, and I also got upgraded, was great for me, but was basically lost money for the hotel. They would have had no trouble in selling the room to someone else at full price.
many spg properties are dated and in tough competition...
i will think twice if it is worth going out of the way to stay at a spg property as I did in the past
Jan 19, 2013, 10:48 pm
#137
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: a hotel room, somewhere...
Posts: 962
Unless they are anticipating a category jump and prefer to withhold the C&P availability until then.
I find this highly unlikely. Using Aloft Bangkok, where there was excellent availability throughout the year, there is now no C&P dates through the end of the year. The chance that 300 days of C&P were booked up is nil.
I find this highly unlikely. Using Aloft Bangkok, where there was excellent availability throughout the year, there is now no C&P dates through the end of the year. The chance that 300 days of C&P were booked up is nil.
hyatt maxes out @ 22k points and we already know their yearly devaluation is a non-event except for a couple of properties that were a steal at current levels. spend strategically $5,400 on ink bold and you have a free night at the highest- cat 6. and $5,400 on the spg gets me.... EXACTLY. furthermore, hyatt actually upgrades you. as platinum, i did not have 1 'wow' upgrade- not one. nearly all not a suite- simply a higher floor that i could have gotten with gold, or maybe no status if i asked nicely.
seems the smart way to play at this point is to bid smartly on priceline. earn status through spend and stay at properties that recognize status for priceline stays (hyatt, marriott from my experience do).
Jan 19, 2013, 11:43 pm
#138
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,737
If they open up availability of cash and points I don't mind paying a little extra on cash or points... but that is domestically...
I'm curious as to what changes will be made next month category-wise, because I've seen a large number of Starwood hotels that I know are at least 1 category higher than they should be.
I'm curious as to what changes will be made next month category-wise, because I've seen a large number of Starwood hotels that I know are at least 1 category higher than they should be.
Jan 19, 2013, 11:59 pm
#139
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 34
When will we know if they are upgrading categories? Will they give us advance notice like they did with cash and points so we can make reservations ahead of the jump?
Jan 20, 2013, 12:02 am
#140
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kobe, Japan
Programs: Bonvoy Platinum, IHG Diamond, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 1,533
This is basically a 40% devaluation in the value of the Starwood points. It might have been better if they had introduced a mid tier and only upped the cash or points price on the lowest tier. My understanding was that C&P where only available during low occupancy periods, which is why they were much more limited. Now they aren't nearly as good a value as they were. I don't see that I will ever use them now. Much better to use points during high occupancy and play Priceline roulette or look for other deals during low occupancy periods.
Right now, on Cat 4&5 room it was a toss up as to whether C&P value at 2c/pt was worth it. After March the values will drop to 1.5cents, which is a good bit less than what I get from the airlines.
I have used my SPG AMEX for US spending (overseas FX rates kill the value) for a couple years now, with the plan to use the C&P at SPG resort properties. I recently got Gold, and was pretty excited to take full advantage of the program.
With this huge devaluation, I foresee myself sticking with Chase's UR program (no FX) and mining Priceline/Agoda/Wotif for the best rates.
Jan 20, 2013, 12:15 am
#141
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kobe, Japan
Programs: Bonvoy Platinum, IHG Diamond, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 1,533
To be honest my recent stay at the Le Meridien Phuket, at $60+4000points per night, when the proper price was over $500, and I also got upgraded, was great for me, but was basically lost money for the hotel. They would have had no trouble in selling the room to someone else at full price.
However I am booked into Le Meridien Jimbaran Bali for $90+4800. Add in taxes and it is $108.
The current rate w/ taxes can be as low as $193, so those 4800 are worth $85 today, and a fair bit less after March.
Not that it matters, as ALL C&P have vanished for the rest of 2013 (there were plenty two weeks ago).
Jan 20, 2013, 1:46 am
#142
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 13,312
-David
Jan 20, 2013, 2:52 am
#143
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LON SIN HKG
Programs: AA, SPG, Hh, Amex MR, Marriott, ICH, VA, CC, LH
Posts: 433
It's a devaluation, minimum -25% in my opinion.
SPG were once revered as offering one of the premier schemes and I have taken trouble to place my company's business there.
As a result of these changes SPG will fall from a fall in the league table as towards the top to somewhere below middle.
It is a shame that SPG value customer loyalty so poorly.
SPG were once revered as offering one of the premier schemes and I have taken trouble to place my company's business there.
As a result of these changes SPG will fall from a fall in the league table as towards the top to somewhere below middle.
It is a shame that SPG value customer loyalty so poorly.
Jan 20, 2013, 4:14 am
#144
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MKE
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Plat, IHG-Plat
Posts: 86
I thought C&P (and Priceline, Hotwire, etc.) were offered at a hotel’s discretion at times of lower occupancy. Even with the large increase in the C&P price, it will still be offered at a hotel’s discretion according to what I have seen. So the only ways I can see the availability increasing are:
-Hotels will probably be allowed to keep most of the large increase in price, making them more likely to offer this rate.
-More loyal SPG members will wisely begin looking more closely at competing hotels, which will lower the occupancy of SPG hotels, leading to more availability of C&P.
Unfortunately it seems that SPG is now following the path that other formerly premier programs have taken.
-Program that is regarded by most as best in the industry begins to disregard the time tested motto, "if it isn’t broke don’t fix it". This began occurring at SPG at least a year ago.
-Periodic messages are conveyed regarding devaluations of points and other negative changes for most members that seriously insult their intelligence by referring to the updates as a "positive enhancement".
-Program gradually becomes more and more complex and harder for the occasional traveler to understand, yet the additional "enhancements" actually hurt most users who were formerly very happy with the program. Additional rules and "enhancements" also often require additional contact with customer service agents leading to additional wait times and frustration, and likely needlessly increasing the costs to the program.
-After enough members are angered and begin moving business to other hotels or using alternative methods to obtain discounts, program begins offering better promotions/credit card enhancements to attract new members and entice former members to reconsider the program.
For example after large devaluations, largely with no advance notice, Marriott now has a pretty much ongoing stay twice/get one free night promotion (free night at a cat. 1-4 only, but can find these in most places) and a credit card with no international transaction fees.
I know marketing people sometimes like to update programs just for the sake of change to appear creative or to justify their existence, and companies sometimes unwisely go along with the ideas, but I really hope SPG tries to remember "if it isn’t broke don’t fix it" before the program is totally ruined as has happened to others in the past.
I heard that classic Coke may need an update to a different taste so maybe creative people can work on changes there and SPG can return to a relatively simple program that offers better value and rewards and has more satisfied and loyal members than any other.
-Hotels will probably be allowed to keep most of the large increase in price, making them more likely to offer this rate.
-More loyal SPG members will wisely begin looking more closely at competing hotels, which will lower the occupancy of SPG hotels, leading to more availability of C&P.
Unfortunately it seems that SPG is now following the path that other formerly premier programs have taken.
-Program that is regarded by most as best in the industry begins to disregard the time tested motto, "if it isn’t broke don’t fix it". This began occurring at SPG at least a year ago.
-Periodic messages are conveyed regarding devaluations of points and other negative changes for most members that seriously insult their intelligence by referring to the updates as a "positive enhancement".
-Program gradually becomes more and more complex and harder for the occasional traveler to understand, yet the additional "enhancements" actually hurt most users who were formerly very happy with the program. Additional rules and "enhancements" also often require additional contact with customer service agents leading to additional wait times and frustration, and likely needlessly increasing the costs to the program.
-After enough members are angered and begin moving business to other hotels or using alternative methods to obtain discounts, program begins offering better promotions/credit card enhancements to attract new members and entice former members to reconsider the program.
For example after large devaluations, largely with no advance notice, Marriott now has a pretty much ongoing stay twice/get one free night promotion (free night at a cat. 1-4 only, but can find these in most places) and a credit card with no international transaction fees.
I know marketing people sometimes like to update programs just for the sake of change to appear creative or to justify their existence, and companies sometimes unwisely go along with the ideas, but I really hope SPG tries to remember "if it isn’t broke don’t fix it" before the program is totally ruined as has happened to others in the past.
I heard that classic Coke may need an update to a different taste so maybe creative people can work on changes there and SPG can return to a relatively simple program that offers better value and rewards and has more satisfied and loyal members than any other.
Jan 20, 2013, 5:41 am
#145
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MSP and HKG
Programs: DL DM. Marriott Plat. Hyatt DM.
Posts: 332
I book C+P almost never
SPG wants people to use SNA's or C+P to get a suite or upgrade at least. Good for them and very smart. They are collecting a premium for these rooms instead of "giving them away" so as to speak.
I use SNA's when I WANT a suite for sure. Otherwise if I get an upgrade-cool.
Now I can use C+P for that suite if i really WANT it. I like that.
Jan 20, 2013, 8:48 am
#146
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,867
Exactly!
I book C+P almost never
SPG wants people to use SNA's or C+P to get a suite or upgrade at least. Good for them and very smart. They are collecting a premium for these rooms instead of "giving them away" so as to speak.
I use SNA's when I WANT a suite for sure. Otherwise if I get an upgrade-cool.
Now I can use C+P for that suite if i really WANT it. I like that.
I book C+P almost never
SPG wants people to use SNA's or C+P to get a suite or upgrade at least. Good for them and very smart. They are collecting a premium for these rooms instead of "giving them away" so as to speak.
I use SNA's when I WANT a suite for sure. Otherwise if I get an upgrade-cool.
Now I can use C+P for that suite if i really WANT it. I like that.
Jan 20, 2013, 8:51 am
#147
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New York
Programs: AA, WN, BA, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold, Club Carlson Gold, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 313
Cash and points is one of the best components of the SPG program for anyone who doesn't have ton of points. It's true that availability is sporadic at best, but if a hotel typically offers C+P, its a great value. I'll give you a example.
The Westin Gaslamp Quarter, San Diego - Cat. 4
Cash Price: $209
C+P: 4,000 points & $60
Points: 10,000
The C+P rate is by far the best option here. The Westin has decent C+P availability through the end of April. It looks like new rates have not yet been loaded past April 30th.
If this change brings reimbursement rates for C+P higher, then hopefully hotels will open up more C+P availability. I'm not holding my breath. Real change will only happen if SPG steps in and sets up some minimum requirement for C+P availability across all hotels.
The Westin Gaslamp Quarter, San Diego - Cat. 4
Cash Price: $209
C+P: 4,000 points & $60
Points: 10,000
The C+P rate is by far the best option here. The Westin has decent C+P availability through the end of April. It looks like new rates have not yet been loaded past April 30th.
If this change brings reimbursement rates for C+P higher, then hopefully hotels will open up more C+P availability. I'm not holding my breath. Real change will only happen if SPG steps in and sets up some minimum requirement for C+P availability across all hotels.
Jan 20, 2013, 10:15 am
#148
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 52
Three things needed to occur to make this more palatable...
1. Better timing with the reward nights now count towards status (this in my mind was of significant value, so forgives some devaluation).
2. An actual T&C change that guarantees more C&P availability in the future.
3. Reward stays will count towards promotions/cash portion earns points in the future (and perhaps a hint towards free nights.
)
1. Better timing with the reward nights now count towards status (this in my mind was of significant value, so forgives some devaluation).
2. An actual T&C change that guarantees more C&P availability in the future.
3. Reward stays will count towards promotions/cash portion earns points in the future (and perhaps a hint towards free nights.
)
Jan 20, 2013, 10:42 am
#149
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Germany / Thailand
Programs: M&M/S SPG livetime gold, but not running behind status & points anymore! Now only book value for $
Posts: 3,090
looks like the new C&P redemptions are exactly 50 % off the points needed for a standard redemption. Interesting that the $ them calculated for the savings are vary from cat to cat. see below.
** Kat. 1 & 2 weekend stand. is 2000 and 3000 so at weekends it's never worth to choose C & P in a kat 1/2
usually during the week them cost aprox 4500 THB ++ = 177 US$
bevore I used 2100 points (1600 + 500 which i would earn on the paid rate ) to save 142 US $ ( also the 30 $ is ++ ) = saving 6.76 cent per point used !
now it's 2500 points ( 2000 + 500 which i would earn on the paid rate ) to save 136 US $ ( also the 35 $ is ++ ) = saving 5.44 cent per point used !
I still hope them stay a kat 2 ! A change to kat 3 would be much more worth . Then the saving would go back to 3,20 cent per point used .
** Kat. 1 & 2 weekend stand. is 2000 and 3000 so at weekends it's never worth to choose C & P in a kat 1/2
usually during the week them cost aprox 4500 THB ++ = 177 US$
bevore I used 2100 points (1600 + 500 which i would earn on the paid rate ) to save 142 US $ ( also the 30 $ is ++ ) = saving 6.76 cent per point used !
now it's 2500 points ( 2000 + 500 which i would earn on the paid rate ) to save 136 US $ ( also the 35 $ is ++ ) = saving 5.44 cent per point used !
I still hope them stay a kat 2 ! A change to kat 3 would be much more worth . Then the saving would go back to 3,20 cent per point used .
Last edited by bertheike; Jan 20, 2013 at 11:04 am
Jan 20, 2013, 11:28 am
#150
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Germany / Thailand
Programs: M&M/S SPG livetime gold, but not running behind status & points anymore! Now only book value for $
Posts: 3,090
$500 sounds high, but perhaps.
However I am booked into Le Meridien Jimbaran Bali for $90+4800. Add in taxes and it is $108.
The current rate w/ taxes can be as low as $193, so those 4800 are worth $85 today, and a fair bit less after March.
Not that it matters, as ALL C&P have vanished for the rest of 2013 (there were plenty two weeks ago).
However I am booked into Le Meridien Jimbaran Bali for $90+4800. Add in taxes and it is $108.
The current rate w/ taxes can be as low as $193, so those 4800 are worth $85 today, and a fair bit less after March.
Not that it matters, as ALL C&P have vanished for the rest of 2013 (there were plenty two weeks ago).