737 MAX
Jan 13, 2020, 6:34 am
#61
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
I don't know if people still check this thread, but I just saw this NYT article and oh my goodness...
Here's a question: at what point should criminal charges be explored??
Here's a question: at what point should criminal charges be explored??
Jan 13, 2020, 9:56 am
#62
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,722
Those were rather easy fixes. The 737 MAX is impossible to fix because the basic design is flawed. You would have to change the design, body, engines - everything.
Jan 13, 2020, 10:24 am
#63
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,513
Jan 13, 2020, 7:25 pm
#64
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,849
Jan 13, 2020, 8:27 pm
#65
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
MAX is the best selling aircraft in history. Some of those orders may be converted to other models, but I suspect that discounts from Boeing will make MAX irresistible to carriers, regardless of the issues. MAX isn't going to go away. The economics in place won't allow that.
Jan 13, 2020, 9:03 pm
#66
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: WN F9 HA UA AA IHG HH MR
Posts: 3,305
Jan 13, 2020, 10:15 pm
#67
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Carriers need aircraft. Do you really think they'll sue and take their business elsewhere, and wait for other aircraft to be built and delivered? Or do you think they'll take the planes they ordered, which will have been approved by the FAA (et al) and which will be offered for significantly less than originally priced?
Serious question to those posting here: Do you really think that MAX will just go away?
Jan 13, 2020, 11:45 pm
#68
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,849
Every day that passes with it grounded that becomes a greater possibility. Their suppliers will get hit with serious cash flow issues the longer it drags out. A few key suppliers going bust will complicate things exponentially. Carriers who were relying on the Max better have a back up plan. They can’t wait forever for Boeing to get their act together.
Jan 14, 2020, 7:41 am
#69
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Every day that passes with it grounded that becomes a greater possibility. Their suppliers will get hit with serious cash flow issues the longer it drags out. A few key suppliers going bust will complicate things exponentially. Carriers who were relying on the Max better have a back up plan. They can’t wait forever for Boeing to get their act together.
Jan 14, 2020, 8:28 am
#70
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,513
But you're right that airlines have few options. WSJ reports Airbus has an eight-year backlog for its A320neo.
Jan 14, 2020, 2:49 pm
#71
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Boeing offers discounts and bulk-buy deals in wake of 737 Max crashes
Boeing is offering huge discounts, bulk-buy deals and maintenance packages to airlines as it fights to hold onto 737 Max orders after the aircraft was grounded following two crashes.
Airlines rarely pay the full price for new aircraft, but experts say the crisis at Boeing in the wake of the safety scandal has driven price cutting to new levels.
Airlines rarely pay the full price for new aircraft, but experts say the crisis at Boeing in the wake of the safety scandal has driven price cutting to new levels.
Jan 14, 2020, 4:55 pm
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 26,708
Or a bunch of D-checks and bringing planes out of the desert. Every day the MAX is grounded, that very expensive option gets less expensive by a bit.
Jan 15, 2020, 6:38 am
#73
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Malaysia Airlines Halts 737 Max Deliveries in Fresh Blow to Boeing
Boeing reports more cancellations than new orders for 2019
The airline said it made the decision because it’s unclear when the 737 Max will return to service following crashes in Indonesia in late 2018 and Ethiopia 10 months ago that killed 346 people. Malaysia Airlines has 25 of the jets on order and hasn’t received any.
“In view of the production stoppage and the delayed return to service of the 737-MAX, Malaysia Airlines has suspended the delivery of its orders which are due in 2020,” the carrier said in a statement. “Malaysia Airlines views safety of its operations and customers of utmost priority and welcomes moves by Boeing to improve procedures to ensure the safe operations of the 737 Max.”
“In view of the production stoppage and the delayed return to service of the 737-MAX, Malaysia Airlines has suspended the delivery of its orders which are due in 2020,” the carrier said in a statement. “Malaysia Airlines views safety of its operations and customers of utmost priority and welcomes moves by Boeing to improve procedures to ensure the safe operations of the 737 Max.”
The company reported more cancellations than new business in 2019, and its order book for the troubled 737 Max shrank by 183 jets. Much of that was because of some overseas airlines, such as India's Jet Airways, going bankrupt, but with the troubled Max, there was little demand to make up for the lost orders.
The 777, which is seeing delays in the debut of the 777X version, also lost more orders than it gained. Even with positive orders for the 767 and 787 Dreamliner, Boeing's (BA) total orders for commercial jets last year fell by 87 jets.
Even without the impact of canceled orders, Boeing's new orders were sharply lower for the year, tumbling 74% to 243. Most of that was due to the 90% drop in orders for 737 models during the year. Boeing barely had any firm orders for the Max after the grounding in mid-March, but other models also suffered a 29% drop in new orders.
The 777, which is seeing delays in the debut of the 777X version, also lost more orders than it gained. Even with positive orders for the 767 and 787 Dreamliner, Boeing's (BA) total orders for commercial jets last year fell by 87 jets.
Even without the impact of canceled orders, Boeing's new orders were sharply lower for the year, tumbling 74% to 243. Most of that was due to the 90% drop in orders for 737 models during the year. Boeing barely had any firm orders for the Max after the grounding in mid-March, but other models also suffered a 29% drop in new orders.
Jan 15, 2020, 12:08 pm
#74
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 5,867
Makes sense given that MA is on the thinnest of ice possible. Any more incidents with them and they are toast.