737 MAX

Old Jan 13, 20, 6:34 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by oreocookies View Post
I don't know if people still check this thread, but I just saw this NYT article and oh my goodness...


Here's a question: at what point should criminal charges be explored??
A Department of Justice inquiry was initiated some time ago. Such things usually take awhile to determine if any charges would be warranted.
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Old Jan 13, 20, 9:56 am
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Wingrider View Post
I think it will fly again carrying PAX at some point. They fixed the 787 issues and people are mostly past it. People still flew on DC-10s after their issues and after that Aloha flight had the top come off.

Sad, irrisponsible, and tragic circumstances all around.
Those were rather easy fixes. The 737 MAX is impossible to fix because the basic design is flawed. You would have to change the design, body, engines - everything.
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Old Jan 13, 20, 10:24 am
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Originally Posted by Boraxo View Post
The 737 MAX is impossible to fix because the basic design is flawed. You would have to change the design, body, engines - everything.
I think it will fly again. But new orders will drop off or dry up. Enormous inputs to bring the nose back down/up following climbs and descents fulfills no airline's dream.
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Old Jan 13, 20, 7:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Boraxo View Post
Those were rather easy fixes. The 737 MAX is impossible to fix because the basic design is flawed. You would have to change the design, body, engines - everything.
Maybe a "food plane" would be a more appropriate use for the frames--like a food truck based at the airport. Who doesn't want a quick and cheap meal on the go.
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Old Jan 13, 20, 8:27 pm
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MAX is the best selling aircraft in history. Some of those orders may be converted to other models, but I suspect that discounts from Boeing will make MAX irresistible to carriers, regardless of the issues. MAX isn't going to go away. The economics in place won't allow that.
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Old Jan 13, 20, 9:03 pm
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Originally Posted by ursine1 View Post
MAX is the best selling aircraft in history... MAX isn't going to go away.
Boeing sold these airplanes under fraudulent circumstances. MCAS was installed to conceal its deadly flight characteristics.
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Old Jan 13, 20, 10:15 pm
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Originally Posted by Tanic View Post
Boeing sold these airplanes under fraudulent circumstances. MCAS was installed to conceal its deadly flight characteristics.
And?

Carriers need aircraft. Do you really think they'll sue and take their business elsewhere, and wait for other aircraft to be built and delivered? Or do you think they'll take the planes they ordered, which will have been approved by the FAA (et al) and which will be offered for significantly less than originally priced?

Serious question to those posting here: Do you really think that MAX will just go away?
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Old Jan 13, 20, 11:45 pm
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Originally Posted by ursine1 View Post
Serious question to those posting here: Do you really think that MAX will just go away?
Every day that passes with it grounded that becomes a greater possibility. Their suppliers will get hit with serious cash flow issues the longer it drags out. A few key suppliers going bust will complicate things exponentially. Carriers who were relying on the Max better have a back up plan. They canít wait forever for Boeing to get their act together.
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Old Jan 14, 20, 7:41 am
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco View Post
Every day that passes with it grounded that becomes a greater possibility. Their suppliers will get hit with serious cash flow issues the longer it drags out. A few key suppliers going bust will complicate things exponentially. Carriers who were relying on the Max better have a back up plan. They canít wait forever for Boeing to get their act together.
How long would they have to wait if they canceled their orders and went with Airbus, which is really the only alternative?
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Old Jan 14, 20, 8:28 am
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Originally Posted by ursine1 View Post
Or do you think they'll take the planes they ordered, which will have been approved by the FAA (et al) and which will be offered for significantly less than originally priced?
Fulfilling MAX orders "significantly less than originally priced" is a brassy assumption. Customers routinely swap orders (e.g., three MAX 8s for two 777's). The swap penalties may go away.

But you're right that airlines have few options. WSJ reports Airbus has an eight-year backlog for its A320neo.
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Old Jan 14, 20, 2:49 pm
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Originally Posted by LegalTender View Post
Fulfilling MAX orders "significantly less than originally priced" is a brassy assumption.
Not "brassy," not an assumption.

Boeing offers discounts and bulk-buy deals in wake of 737 Max crashes



Boeing is offering huge discounts, bulk-buy deals and maintenance packages to airlines as it fights to hold onto 737 Max orders after the aircraft was grounded following two crashes.


Airlines rarely pay the full price for new aircraft, but experts say the crisis at Boeing in the wake of the safety scandal has driven price cutting to new levels.
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Old Jan 14, 20, 4:55 pm
  #72  
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Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112 View Post
How long would they have to wait if they canceled their orders and went with Airbus, which is really the only alternative?
Or a bunch of D-checks and bringing planes out of the desert. Every day the MAX is grounded, that very expensive option gets less expensive by a bit.
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Old Jan 15, 20, 6:38 am
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Malaysia Airlines Halts 737 Max Deliveries in Fresh Blow to Boeing

The airline said it made the decision because it’s unclear when the 737 Max will return to service following crashes in Indonesia in late 2018 and Ethiopia 10 months ago that killed 346 people. Malaysia Airlines has 25 of the jets on order and hasn’t received any.

“In view of the production stoppage and the delayed return to service of the 737-MAX, Malaysia Airlines has suspended the delivery of its orders which are due in 2020,” the carrier said in a statement. “Malaysia Airlines views safety of its operations and customers of utmost priority and welcomes moves by Boeing to improve procedures to ensure the safe operations of the 737 Max.”
Boeing reports more cancellations than new orders for 2019

The company reported more cancellations than new business in 2019, and its order book for the troubled 737 Max shrank by 183 jets. Much of that was because of some overseas airlines, such as India's Jet Airways, going bankrupt, but with the troubled Max, there was little demand to make up for the lost orders.

The 777, which is seeing delays in the debut of the 777X version, also lost more orders than it gained. Even with positive orders for the 767 and 787 Dreamliner, Boeing's (BA) total orders for commercial jets last year fell by 87 jets.

Even without the impact of canceled orders, Boeing's new orders were sharply lower for the year, tumbling 74% to 243. Most of that was due to the 90% drop in orders for 737 models during the year. Boeing barely had any firm orders for the Max after the grounding in mid-March, but other models also suffered a 29% drop in new orders.
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Old Jan 15, 20, 12:08 pm
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Makes sense given that MA is on the thinnest of ice possible. Any more incidents with them and they are toast.
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Old Jan 15, 20, 1:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Sandeep1 View Post
Makes sense given that MA is on the thinnest of ice possible. Any more incidents with them and they are toast.
They also have massive financial problems.
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