storewanderer

I don't know. Masks required and cases go up... look at California. Look at Texas and Florida... it seems like it is not helping but rather causing even more problems... to require people to wear masks.

The masks should in theory help. I am just not sure based on the data and the case counts being reported, that the masks are helping. Unless the case count numbers are being exaggerated/inflated for some reason... all these asymptomatic cases... are we sure they are really cases? Are the tests potentially inaccurate and inflated figures being reported to make this seem more of a "crisis" than it really is?

Going to be really tough to justify continuing these mask rules if cases keep rising over the next few weeks. Again as I have established I do agree with mask rules in the airplanes.

Masks seem to be being counted on as the "way" to get things back to normal. Masks are being treated like they are a cure all. From the moment people started to voluntarily wear masks and stopped observing the six foot social distancing rules, I have been quite uncertain about the masks. The masks are supposed to be an additional layer of protection, not a substitute for other things like the six foot social distancing rules. When you have Goldman Sachs coming out and saying a national mask requirement would add billions to the economy over the remainder of the year, you need to understand here that many are pushing masks are the cure all and way to get us all back to normal. I do not think their effectiveness is proven and at this point it seems riskier to travel, fly, and go "be social" than it was back in March/April since cases are UP and crowds are increasing. Yet we have all these mask rules now, and things keep getting worse. As I said before I am becoming suspicious the masks are causing more harm than good. However I know the mask police would say if we had worn masks back in March/April it never would have spread as much as it has now. Again, given how the intensity of the wildfire is increasing since mask requirements went into place I do not think that is true but who knows.

Bottom line is people are social. People cannot be social and wear a mask (you can't eat/drink with a mask). Social situations appear to be what is spreading this virus. It is becoming more and more clear and became that much more clear after this past holiday weekend that people want their social life back and frankly do not give much of a concern about this virus and are tired of all of the restrictions.

ursine1

I can't believe I even have to say this, but just like someone saying they don't personally know anyone with COVID doesn't mean no one has it, what you personally think you see is not necessarily representative of reality.

Gov. Sisolak threatens action after data shows 49% of businesses following mask mandate

Misguided people are literally forming protest groups opposed to mask wearing. Republican law enforcement officers are refusing to enforce compliance. Confrontations between businesses requiring masks and those who view mask wearing as an assault on their civil liberties are causing businesses to shut back down.

One thing you got correct: I do not watch much US cable news. A recommendation: try getting your news from more diverse and less biased sources.

ursine1

My direct experience is only with Southwest, but it would appear from what I saw, along with what I've read in forums and on social media, that enforcement is variable, seemingly dependent upon the individual crew's discretion. I had one "good" flight, where all passengers I saw were compliant and multiple announcements were made, and another where there were no announcements and multiple passengers left their masks around their necks for most of the flight. The former was early June and the latter was today, fyi, so this could also be representative of the general decline in mask wearing over that period. Alaska recently doubled-down on their policy language, so in theory they might be the strictest with regards to enforcement. I have no plans to fly American or United as long as they refuse to block middle seats.

kennycrudup

C'mon, dude- even if you aren't talking about me, you're better than that. I don't think anyone's saying "no one has it"- but what I have said is "out of 40 million people in the State of CA, (as of today) 6,331 people- or 0.015% of the population- have died from it, and of that minute percentage 77% of those have been > 65"- IOW, it's just not worth the kind of fear it's been given for healthy people, even those my age. (Now, had you put quotes around that "no one", then yeah, it's a factual statement).

But what's the point of even discussing it any further- everyone here all knows where we all stand, and nobody's mind is apparently going to be changed in a FT thread. It's a free country- if you're < 65 and otherwise healthy and still wish to fear CV, that's your right, but I'm not going to live my life afraid of something that's got worse odds of killing me than say, the odds of getting 5 out of 6 numbers on a scratch-off ticket.

I only wish public policy were more grounded in "reality" instead of "fear", but this is the dumpster fire called "2020" we've been handed this year. Guess I'll have to wait it out and hope for the best.

Zorak

It's been known to happen, but I wouldn't count on it I guess

If it helps, I think nearly everyone universally agrees they are ready for this to be the hell over, whether they believe "this" is media-driven mass hysteria on one end, to "OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING PANIC!!!!" on the other end, or somewhere in the middle of "this is somewhat scary but maybe overall not that scary but just the same let's maybe err on the side of being overly cautious just in case" in the middle.

Hopefully we can do another Bay Area meetup again before the end of 2020 and argue over drinks about whether this was prudent or an overreaction

storewanderer

Look, I was out over the past few days in numerous retail stores in Nevada. Multiple Wal Mart locations, numerous grocery stores, the mall in Reno (Macys, JCP, Dick's, the mall itself). Specifically various stores in Washoe County, Carson County, and Douglas County. Broad range of politics in those three counties. 100% mask compliance. No confrontations. No protests. Nothing. I saw literally thousands of people and they are wearing masks while in the stores. People are doing as they are being told to do, and wearing masks per state mandate. I can tell you had you gone to Carson or Douglas before the state mandate you'd have seen less than 20% of the people in the stores wearing masks and in Washoe maybe 40% of people wearing masks before the state mandate. I have no clue where the 49% business compliance statistic comes from- but it isn't around here, at least not with retail stores. Or is it biased data that is being falsified in an attempt to promote more fear, cause more problems, and make more business closure mandates again?

What do I see that is not compliant? Restaurants and bars- there is no social distancing. Lake Tahoe is super crowded and it doesn't matter if you are on the NV side or the CA side, they are packing people in tight and there is singing, yelling, no masks on anyone. Looks very unsafe. Masks are off the whole time people are seated at tables. I am not going to restaurants and sticking around, but this is what I am observing walking by and looking in or looking at the outside/patio areas. Protests a few weeks ago- no social distancing and few masks. More recent protests, there has been more mask use but still no social distancing.

The mandate is not enforceable in Nevada by law enforcement, so all a business can do is refuse service and if a customer misbehaves because of it they can trespass out the customer (they can't trespass them out for not wearing a mask, but they can trespass them out for other misbehavior or confrontation).

You can read the news article (which is highly biased) or you can get on the ground and go out in the field and make observations like I did. It is up to you. But I am telling you at least in these three counties the reality is nothing close to what that article is describing.

I suppose if we can get these folks back to work they will not have time for protest groups.

storewanderer

Does the flight originating in an airport with a mask requirement in terminal have any impact on what you observed in flight? Were both flights out of the same airport?

Kevin AA

+1

Yesterday at a casino I saw one person not wearing a mask. I go to a casino almost every day. I have not seen someone not wear a mask indoors since the governor's mask order. The compliance rate in Reno is 99.99%.

They must be using some absurdly high standards, like pulling your mask down to eat or drink, or you're 5.5 feet away from someone else or something idiotic like that. Moving the goalposts so the governor can keep the people under his thumb is getting tiring.

ursine1

Certainly people realize that the world is larger than their everyday experience?

FYI: I live in Las Vegas. I work with multiple casinos and entertainment companies. I visit multiple locations (I "get on the ground and go out in the field") every day.

My experience with regards to mask compliance is significantly different than that reported here. From my observation, along with reports from friends & clients who work in casinos and retail stores, I'd estimate mask compliance now (following the state mandate which went in effect on June 26) at approximately 80% - 85%. For these purposes I'm calling non-compliant those with masks around their neck, below their chin for an extended time, or worn incorrectly (below their nose, etc.). I could tell multiple stories about confrontations I've witnessed (or been given reports of) between people refusing to wear a mask and casino security or store owners.

Las Vegas, per capita, represents a exceedingly larger portion of Nevada than the places others have referenced. So my anecdotal experience should trump those reports, right? Clearly, what I'm seeing is how it must be!

Do you see how stupid this is?


Anecdotal reports are not statistical data.


So I'll just go ahead and continue to trust the people whose job it is to monitor these things and collect the statistical data. If that aligns with my experience, great. If not, I'll accept that what I see is limited, and doesn't represent the big picture.


Turning back to data: It appears that compliance is improving, if only marginally. Southern Nevada showing 66% compliance on new mask policy, agency says (Before someone calls this article "highly biased" I'll point out that the RJ is owned by Sheldon Adelson's News + Media Capital Group, which falls well on the conservative side of things.)

FYI: The initial OSHA report referenced earlier was based on visits to grocery, home improvement and clothing stores, hair and nail salons and tattoo parlors, while the latest one included hotel-casino pools, a water park, bars, and gaming floors. OSHA also noted that in the most recent visits compliance was 82% in Northern Nevada and 75% in the South, a disparity which roughly aligns with the anecdotal reports here.

ursine1

Both flights were LAS-OAK.

kennycrudup

... which is ironic, as I use the State of California Covid-19 Workbook as the source of my data, and a lot of people here seem to think I'm "underplaying" the threat even though the official data agrees with my assessment.

kennycrudup

I've recently moved to near SNA, but I'm going to be back in the SJC area quite often- so I'm down (and still subscribed to the thread).

storewanderer

Pretty interesting the compliance is so poor down there. I don't know what the problem is... can't imagine it is the high temperature and inability to breathe with a mask on. Not really an excuse inside a building though. Don't a lot of the businesses in Las Vegas have security? Do they not enforce this? Security guards at CA businesses enforce mask rules. I can tell you not many people here are happy about a mask requirement but we are following it at least. Few businesses in Reno have security guards yet for some reason the rule is being followed here.

I have heard some reports from CA (specifically Placer County- suburbs of Sacramento) that mask compliance is poor (like less than 50%) in some stores there. No security in most of those stores like you'd see at the ones closer into Sacramento.

steved5480

www.airlinepilotcentral.com
June 29th, 2020

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...ace-masks.html

ursine1

The FAA has never required face masks.

Airlines have repeatedly asked the federal government to get involved with corona virus mitigation (mask requirements, temperature checks, etc.) but they've refused. Since this is the Peanut Gallery, I'll add that the head of the DOT is Elaine Chao, who is Mitch McConnell's wife.

Flight Attendants, Pilots and Lawmakers Once Again Call on the FAA to Enforce Mandatory Mask Wearing