Herb687

This. Most charter by the seat ventures have failed. This new offering will have very limited appeal to the charter initiator as generally those who can afford to pay $4,000/hour and up to charter a business jet are not very price sensitive. They certainly don't like the core service offering of JetSmarter which is to take the private out of private aviation.

For those price sensitive charter passengers who could afford 1/8 * $4,000+/hr for a seat, it's highly unlikely that a flight will exist at the desired date in the desired market (absent a few high-demand events and heavily traveled markets that are presumably already covered by shuttles)


Edited to add: O/T but I did get a chuckle out of JetSmarter offering a flight on a Hawker 1000. That's one rare bird!

Kagehitokiri

how is jetsuitex doing, and could they do it with smaller planes?

if NY-DC market is biggest, is it also least willing to share planes?

event market and travel market will both charter then sell packages

sfo2bos

Agree. Not saying it's a bad thing, I think it is actually a pretty sage move.

Cash coming in will always be greater, and they do not multiply. They are traded among members once they are in the system (member getting on an initiated shuttle can use his credit towards a seat, which transfers to the other member, so it remains in the system).

Cash comes in up front, but they are going to carry a lot of credits among members where this credit pool may be mostly additive and these credits are never 'spent' with JS outside of members leaving or spending on shuttles or in other ways.

Usage cap means they theoretically shouldn't go out of pocket on credits for high value low margin flights. If I were them I would look for high margin ancillary goods and services that members could use credits on. JS wants credits that have been traded once to get out of the system to make room for paying customers on member initiated shuttles.

millions

I don't know. As a customer, distribution of credits rather than cash back, especially with an outfit as...untried as this one, is enough of a red flag. The addition of a cap on use of those credits is a bridge too far for me.

And I think there are other, less alienating ways to accomplish its goals. Take 10% off the top of credits paid to the creator when someone books an empty on shared shuttles. Heck, a company confident in its solvency and profitability should be able to take that 10% and offer cash back, rather than credits.

Herb687

JetSuiteX operates in a limited number of markets with significant and quantifiable demand. There's a lot of demand for same-day business travel between the Bay Area and LA area, ditto LA to Vegas.

Other operators like Rise, SurfAir do this too - focus on connecting a limited number of markets that see a lot of regular demand and same-day business travel demand, specifically.

Outside of key corridors like Bay-Basin, DAL-HOU, NYC-CHI, etc. charter by the seat is really tough due to low volume.


My guess is that NYC-WAS would be a poor market for charter by the seat/shuttle service because the GA airports are inconveniently located. Access to DCA for private aircraft is quite restricted:
https://www.nbaa.org/ops/security/programs/dassp/

LGA is ridiculously expensive for operators and slot-restricted.

So by the time someone schleps out to TEB or up to HPN and then has to get into DC after they land at HEF, Amtrak's Acela looks more and more attractive.

Also the airspace congestion that makes air travel in the Northeast so delay prone on airlines is not avoidable by flying private. MMU/TEB/HPN bizjet traffic still has to fight for limited chunks of ZNY/ZDC airspace.

Kagehitokiri

not sure why any (do many?) would use JS for charters except credits, from annual free, this, referrals

my understanding is NY-DC (and in between) is # 1 GA market, my assumption is that this is a lot of owner operated and charters where privacy and discretion is required and cost is irrelevant, and indeed even if sharing plane, cant share transportation on arrival when different final destinations

Herb687

Absolutely. For the cost is irrelevant executive that simply has to get between NY and DC, there are plenty of bizjets flying every weekday. I have seen plenty of corporate Falcon 2000s and G450s flying the Northeast Corridor with one or two passengers onboard.

But the absolute requirement for privacy and security is why a charter-by-the-seat/shared shuttle model would never work for that type of traveler.

For the potential charter by the seat customer who is price-sensitive and doesn't need absolute privacy, flying private between NY and DC is massively expensive and likely slower door-to-door than just taking Amtrak.

dval44

In-depth review on the shared shuttle here:

https://privatejetcardcomparisons.co...ils/#more-5351

WhyPrivate

I think Jetsmarter offering credit is an innovative idea, but will ultimately be useless because of the following lack of redeemable credit stated in the above article.. I would never use a shared charter with my family, but would consider it for a business trip. Can you only choose to sell a few seats? Because if i'm paying the bulk of it i surely don't want to be knee to knee with a stranger.

After a bit of digging, some emails and phone calls, we understand it goes something like this:

Simple Tier members who pay $5,000 per year to join JetSmarter can’t earn any credits by selling seats even if they charter a full aircraft, so really, why bother?
Smart Tier members who pay $15,000 per year to join earn credits and can use them with a $3,000 per transaction cap.
Sophisticated Tier members who pay in the range of $50,000 to join earn credits and can use them with a $6,000 per transaction cap.

I do a super bowl charter trip every year with 8 friends, usually on a Falcon 900 or Gulfstream IV. What is the point of selling the other four-six seats to other people we don't know for a credit that cannot be redeemed at once? It's not as if jetsmarter has more competitive rates than a good broker. Their charter prices ALWAYS come back 25% higher. And if I can only use my "credit" a small clip at a time. What's the point?

Another gimmick that real charter customers won't have any interest in.

millions

Yes.

WhyPrivate

That's good, a full jet with strangers isn't flying private. BUT, sharing a seat or two wouldn't hurt. Still think they should let you redeem all of the credit any time you'd like.

If they can keep pricing competitive with brokers (would need MASSIVE reduction here) and stick with some form of reliable T&C for us members they may be onto something here.

Kagehitokiri

or facilitating easy legal (re)sale of seat to people you invite/approve

hmm, add membership based first class section to jetsuitex RJs with separate first class ground handling, having membership to help cover ground op cost

dval44

Here's my main issue:

Jetsmarter is taking cash and converting it to IOU's.

For the reasons we've talked about, this should make people extememely skeptical.

Each shared shuttle seat they sell, they get thousands in cold hard cash, which they convert to "jetsmarter dollars" and turn around and give to the customer to be redeemed at a later date with them.

This is a cash-generating activity. Anyone seen the end of Dumb and Dumber when the briefcase is full of IOUs? That's what jetsmarter credits are.

Why would members take these as a form of payment versus USD?

dordal

Why? Because nobody in the market is offering cold hard cash.

Option A) I charter with a broker and pay $25K for my flight. End of story.
Option B) I charter with JS and pay $25K for my flight, but then I might get something that has some value (JS Credit) back.

Certainly not as good as getting dollars back, but better than getting nothing back.

If you don't mind extra folks on the plane, I can see that being attractive.

Nicoolio

I think it works only if JS is getting you a good deal on the charter (lowest price on a comparable plane and time with comparable terms) -- If you pay extra to charter via JS and then either A) they don't sell the seats or B) you don't get value out of using the credits, then why not go w a broker who gives you a better price?

I would have liked an option where you can choose credits or say 50% of seats sold in cash but no credit -- that way JetSmarter gets extra dollars for the charter and the flight starter might get some real hard dollar savings.