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-   -   Changes to xONEx Rule Sheet (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/983365-changes-xonex-rule-sheet.html)

christep Oct 13, 2019 7:45 am

OK. But we all know what it means. There's no need to get so autistic over something so trivially obvious.

Calchas Oct 13, 2019 7:48 am

Deleted

anabolism Oct 13, 2019 7:50 am


Originally Posted by christep (Post 31623196)
Lawyers hate commas

Do they? That's news to me. I recall reading about a recent court case that turned on the interpretation of a law, which was decided based on a lack of commas changing the application of a clause.


Originally Posted by christep (Post 31623196)
it's there because in the good old days you could ticket coupons with, say, TYO, NYC or LON and the ground transfer between the coterminals wouldn't count. It's one of the many features that were lost in the "enhancement" of e-tickets.

My recollection of the old handwritten paper tickets was that they were physically formatted so that each page was one coupon and contained a source and destination, and the layout was such that the destination of each coupon was the source for the subsequent coupon, and as a result, one coupon had to be "wasted" for ground transport between any two points. Although the fare calculation would use non-terminal-specific codes, such as "NYC" rather than "EWR", so perhaps my recollection is off, and maybe the old paper tickets would also use non-terminal-specific codes?

anabolism Oct 13, 2019 7:52 am


Originally Posted by christep (Post 31623209)
OK. But we all know what it means. There's no need to get so autistic over something so trivially obvious.

Yes, of course, and what I said in my original post was merely an observation that the wording seemed clumsy and incorrect.

christep Oct 13, 2019 7:54 am

Your recollection is off. I many times used open-dated paper ticket coupons with city codes in conjunction with a valid reservation from an airport corresponding to those codes. LON-NYC-SFO (which, if I remember correctly, used to allow SJC and OAK as well) would be valid on many different airport routes and there was no problem flying into, say, EWR, and out of LGA.

anabolism Oct 13, 2019 7:56 am

Personally, I thought this was a far more interesting change than the observation of the clumsy wording on the segment rule:


Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 31618705)
My recollection is that there was a restriction within the continent of origin regarding stopovers: originally it allowed two, only one per direction, later relaxed to only allowing two, but regardless of direction. In the version I just accessed via EF, there is no restriction on stopovers in the continent of origin, although the rule wording seems to me to be a bit confusing:

STOPOVERS: 2 STOPOVERS REQUIRED AND UNLIMITED FREE STOPOVERS
PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT
UNLIMITED IN SOUTHWEST PACIFIC
2 IN AREA 3
UNLIMITED AT ANY POINT.

I'm not clear what "2 in area 3" means. Is area 3 the same as TC3, meaning Asia/South West Pacific? Surely one is permitted more than two stopovers within Asia and South West Pacific? I routinely have three stopovers in Australia and one or two in Asia.

If we can now have three or more stopovers in the continent of origin, that's good news.

Calchas Oct 13, 2019 7:59 am

Area 3 is TC3, yes.

That's how it appears to read: only two permitted in area 3. Was this fare originating in area 3?

anabolism Oct 13, 2019 8:08 am


Originally Posted by christep (Post 31623238)
Your recollection is off. I many times used open-dated paper ticket coupons with city codes in conjunction with a valid reservation from an airport corresponding to those codes. LON-NYC-SFO (which, if I remember correctly, used to allow SJC and OAK as well) would be valid on many different airport routes and there was no problem flying into, say, EWR, and out of LGA.

Thanks. Interesting that eticket coupons (VCRs) still use city codes. I suppose it's because etickets are mostly constructed automatically from itineraries, and itineraries require an airport code.

anabolism Oct 13, 2019 8:09 am


Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 31623254)
Area 3 is TC3, yes.

That's how it appears to read: only two permitted in area 3. Was this fare originating in area 3?

I pulled it from an EF fare search and I thought in error that it was a generic xONEx ruleset, but in playing with it I see that the "2 in Area x" does get updated for the fare origin. Thanks.

christep Oct 13, 2019 8:21 am

That's interesting, becuase "2 in the [TC]Area of origin" (of which there are 3) is much more restrictive than "2 in the Continent of origin" (of which there are 6) which is what I thought the rule was.

anabolism Oct 13, 2019 12:40 pm


Originally Posted by christep (Post 31623313)
That's interesting, becuase "2 in the [TC]Area of origin" (of which there are 3) is much more restrictive than "2 in the Continent of origin" (of which there are 6) which is what I thought the rule was.

That's how the rule appears in the PDF that I downloaded from the OneWorld web site, dated 1 April 2019. I suppose this might be another case of YMMV, where some agents enforce the GDS version, some the PDF version (and maybe some don't enforce it).

Edit: I just checked the rules currently on the OneWorld web site and they appear the same as the 1 April 2019 ones.

jerry a. laska Oct 13, 2019 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 31623199)
Notice that this version includes commas. That's what the rule is supposed to say. The version returned by EF lacks the commas and hence the minimum of three segments applies to travel between any two airports. Punctuation does matter.

Everyone buying xonex tickets and participating in this forum long enough should have realized by now that the people writing the xonex rules seem to add commas and take away commas with every reissuance of the rules. They clearly are not writing the rules using the Chicago Style Manual.

You can either choose to interpret the missing commas as oneworld decided to make a change to this rule so that it is gobbledygook and meaningless and obsess over it or you can choose to interpret that oneworld's use of the same language (minus the commas) still means the same thing that it did before (especially when this is how it is being applied).

pbd456 Oct 13, 2019 3:13 pm


Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 31618705)
My recollection is that there was a restriction that within the continent of origin regarding stopovers, originally it allowed two, only one per direction, later relaxed to only allowing two, regardless of direction. In the version I just accessed via EF, there is no restriction on stopovers in the continent of origin, although the rule wording is a bit confusing:

STOPOVERS: 2 STOPOVERS REQUIRED AND UNLIMITED FREE STOPOVERS
PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT
UNLIMITED IN SOUTHWEST PACIFIC
2 IN AREA 3
UNLIMITED AT ANY POINT.

I'm not clear what "2 in area 3" means. Is area 3 the same as TC3, meaning Asia/South West Pacific? Surely one is permitted more than two stopovers within Asia and South West Pacific? I routinely have three stopovers in Australia and one or two in Asia.

QR RTW desk insists on 1 stopover in the continent of origin in each direction, and after repeating turning down by RTW desk (which takes a few days to respond).
QR RTW just ignore the request and QR china cant re-route the ticket.

anabolism Oct 13, 2019 5:25 pm


Originally Posted by pbd456 (Post 31624450)
QR RTW desk insists on 1 stopover in the continent of origin in each direction, and after repeating turning down by RTW desk (which takes a few days to respond).
QR RTW just ignore the request and QR china cant re-route the ticket.

That is unfortunate, since the rules both in the GDS and the OneWorld PDF allow two without regard to direction. If your ticket has not yet been issued, perhaps a travel agent could book it? If you are trying to do a re-route, I'm not sure what to suggest. Perhaps a different QR office, or perhaps another airline (whose flights you are using) might agree to take it over? You could try AA, but I've heard they no longer take over RTWs issued by other airlines, which I hope isn't true.

pbd456 Oct 13, 2019 6:22 pm


Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 31624819)
That is unfortunate, since the rules both in the GDS and the OneWorld PDF allow two without regard to direction. If your ticket has not yet been issued, perhaps a travel agent could book it? If you are trying to do a re-route, I'm not sure what to suggest. Perhaps a different QR office, or perhaps another airline (whose flights you are using) might agree to take it over? You could try AA, but I've heard they no longer take over RTWs issued by other airlines, which I hope isn't true.

we gave up to have 2 stops in Europe. This is ex-CAI and basically QR RTW is trying to be as non-responsive as possible. It has nothing to do with any office, because all offices have to go through RTW for re-routing.


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