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Just to be clear - can I book my segments as much as I can on AA flight number to get 2x EQM?
For example) JFK->HKG: AA8927 rather than CX 845 |
Originally Posted by samwise6222
(Post 29300266)
Just to be clear - can I book my segments as much as I can on AA flight number to get 2x EQM?
For example) JFK->HKG: AA8927 rather than CX 845 (assuming you mean EQM in the AAdvantage FFP, and you are travelling in business class, in other words booking class D) There might be implications for EQD earning so maybe you should look in the AA forum - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...advantage-733/ |
Originally Posted by pandaperth
(Post 29302572)
Yes
(assuming you mean EQM in the AAdvantage FFP, and you are travelling in business class, in other words booking class D) There might be implications for EQD earning so maybe you should look in the AA forum - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...advantage-733/ |
Can extra " international arrival" and " international departure" be a stopover?
In the wiki, it mentions that
"You can backtrack within countries and continents, but you cannot re-enter a continent after leaving it, except: (a) a transit without stopover in Asia on a flight between Europe and SWP or vice versa..." In a 2007 post earlier in this thread, quoting the Sabre universal star file, the Oneworld Explorer rules wording at that time was "transit without stopover or on a direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe". I just read again for the first time in a few years the Oneworld Explorer Rules https://www.oneworld.com/documents/1...9-d346ec820edf which now state in 4.e that "Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows: ... 2. Two permitted in Asia when one is for travel between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East." So the rules now just read that an extra intercontinental arrival and intercontinental departure are permitted in Asia. What does this change mean? 1. Can there now be a stopover in Asia after the extra intercontinental arrival before the extra intercontinental departure to Southwest Pacific? The new wording would appear to increase flexibility of the ticket at little cost to the airlines. 2. Should the wiki be updated? Thanks |
Originally Posted by jrobin
(Post 29437978)
What does this change mean? 1. Can there now be a stopover in Asia after the extra intercontinental arrival before the extra intercontinental departure to Southwest Pacific? The new wording would appear to increase flexibility of the ticket at little cost to the airlines. 2. Should the wiki be updated? Thanks (starting from this post - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28695746-post461.html) x
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Originally Posted by jrobin
(Post 29437978)
2. Should the wiki be updated?
Thanks It is editable by anyone with 90 posts and 90 days of membership. :) |
365 Days?
Quick question! When we need to do 365 days from the start date, and say that date is 2/15...would the final flight need to take place on 2/15 or 2/14 of next year?
Thanks! |
Originally Posted by flyingislove
(Post 29457107)
Quick question! When we need to do 365 days from the start date, and say that date is 2/15...would the final flight need to take place on 2/15 or 2/14 of next year?
Thanks! 7. MAXIMUM STAY Return travel from the last stopover point must commence no later than 12 months after departure. ( for example: if the first flight leaves JNB at 12noon on 2/15/18, then can the return flight from the last stopover start at a time that is the same as 12noon JNB time on 2/15/19?) |
Originally Posted by pandaperth
(Post 29458790)
The precise wording of the rule is:
I don't recall any reports/discussion here on what precisely that means ( for example: if the first flight leaves JNB at 12noon on 2/15/18, then can the return flight from the last stopover start at a time that is the same as 12noon JNB time on 2/15/19?) Any flight that departs for JNB on 2/15/19 is valid. Therefore, theoretically, you may arrive at JNB on 16Feb2019. |
Originally Posted by Wasabi Tofu
(Post 29459334)
No.
Any flight that departs for JNB on 2/15/19 is valid. Therefore, theoretically, you may arrive at JNB on 16Feb2019. |
The rules say nothing about when you must finish the ticket. They define only when you must start the last sequence of flights without stopover to get to the end. I could easily devise an itinerary in accordance with this where you arrived at the end 367 days after you started since, in principle, you could take 14 or 15 back to back flights starting on the 365th day (whether that is defined inclusively or exclusively).
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Originally Posted by flyingislove
(Post 29459992)
After the agents said that all was well and my flight could depart on 2/15 and arrive on 2/16, I got a response from ticketing noting that it is 365 INCLUDING the first day, and that arrival must happen by that day. So, arrival was needed by 2/14, meaning that final departure was necessary by 2/13 if it was an overnight flight. Interesting stuff! Just wanted to pass this along in case anyone comes up against this.
Originally Posted by christep
(Post 29460046)
The rules say nothing about when you must finish the ticket. They define only when you must start the last sequence of flights without stopover to get to the end. I could easily devise an itinerary in accordance with this where you arrived at the end 367 days after you started since, in principle, you could take 14 or 15 back to back flights starting on the 365th day (whether that is defined inclusively or exclusively).
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Originally Posted by Calchas
(Post 29461280)
Nothing to do with the rules; one year of ticket validity from the date of the first flight coupon is IATA standard.
AFAIK the flight coupons will not be valid for use more than 365 days after the date on the first flight coupon. |
In this discussion, 365 days and 1 year are different. Please use a correct term. When a leap year is involved, 1 year and 365 have different results.
IATA uses '1 year' or '12 months'. So, a ticket of the first flight on 1st Feb 2016 is valid through 1st Feb 2017 (including 1st Feb 2017, 366th day after the day of issue). |
In my recent experience with BA, the last flight needed to depart 'a day before' the first flight had been flown the previous year. I.e. the first flight was on 25 Oct 2016, BA would not allow the last segment to have departure date of 25 Oct 2017, it needed to be 24 Oct 2017.
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I agree the term "12 months" is vague. AA also insisted that the last flight (not just the last sequence of flights) must depart the day before the one year mark. Interestingly, the AA RTW desk was happy to have the last flight depart on the one-year mark, but ticketing refused to issue it.
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Originally Posted by R2
(Post 29463553)
In my recent experience with BA, the last flight needed to depart 'a day before' the first flight had been flown the previous year. I.e. the first flight was on 25 Oct 2016, BA would not allow the last segment to have departure date of 25 Oct 2017, it needed to be 24 Oct 2017.
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Originally Posted by anabolism
(Post 29466650)
I agree the term "12 months" is vague. AA also insisted that the last flight (not just the last sequence of flights) must depart the day before the one year mark. Interestingly, the AA RTW desk was happy to have the last flight depart on the one-year mark, but ticketing refused to issue it.
I don't think that "12 months" is vague at all. It's the same as my example immediately above. January 1, 2019 is the first day of the 13th month, not the last day of the twelfth. And I apply the same logic to 365 days. That's even easier! Use Excel to put a date in and add 364 to it. (If you add 365, you will be at the 366th day.) |
Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
(Post 29467158)
I can understand that. Count one year from, say, January 1, 2018. The year ends on December 31, 2018. January 1, 2019 is the first day of the next year.
Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
(Post 29467158)
I don't think that "12 months" is vague at all. It's the same as my example immediately above. January 1, 2019 is the first day of the 13th month, not the last day of the twelfth.
Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
(Post 29467158)
And I apply the same logic to 365 days. That's even easier! Use Excel to put a date in and add 364 to it. (If you add 365, you will be at the 366th day.)
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Originally Posted by anabolism
(Post 29471112)
Yes, "365 days" is clear and not ambiguous, except when a leap year comes into play. If my first flight is, say, February 28, 2016 (a leap year that has February 29), can my last flight be February 27 of the following year, or must it be February 26?
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Originally Posted by anabolism
(Post 29471112)
Yes, "365 days" is clear and not ambiguous, except when a leap year comes into play. If my first flight is, say, February 28, 2016 (a leap year that has February 29), can my last flight be February 27 of the following year, or must it be February 26?
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
(Post 29471989)
I suggest that it's clear and unambiguous regardless of whether or not it's a leap year. 365 days is 365 days. Doesn't matter when the month name or year number changes, or how many days there are in a year.
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Originally Posted by Calchas
(Post 29472123)
Actually I meant 366 days if the date range crosses a February 29th (in the present year or otherwise). Just couldn’t be bothered to write it.
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You can get some idea about meaning of 'month' in airline ticket validity from CX online reservation.
HND-HKG 15Oct HKG-HND 15Nov -> 1 month, V class fare applied (V class fare is defined as one month. not 30days/31days/...) HND-HKG 15Nov HKG-HND 15Dec -> 1 month, V class fare applied HND-HKG 15Nov HKG-HND 16Dec ->1 month + 1 day, V class fare can't be applied. HND-HKG 12Nov HKG-HND 26Nov -> 14 days, S class fare applied. |
Originally Posted by Wasabi Tofu
(Post 29473114)
You can get some idea about meaning of 'month' in airline ticket validity from CX online reservation.
HND-HKG 15Oct HKG-HND 15Nov -> 1 month, V class fare applied (V class fare is defined as one month. not 30days/31days/...) HND-HKG 15Nov HKG-HND 15Dec -> 1 month, V class fare applied HND-HKG 15Nov HKG-HND 16Dec ->1 month + 1 day, V class fare can't be applied. HND-HKG 12Nov HKG-HND 26Nov -> 14 days, S class fare applied. Code:
FQTYONYC1MAY-AA« |
Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
(Post 29472256)
Do the rules provide for leap years?
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Originally Posted by Calchas
(Post 29474568)
They don’t need to. Ticket validity is governed by IATA rules. Fares can specify a shorter validity than one year, but it is unusual.
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
(Post 29475285)
Right, but do the IATA rules say one year, 12 months, or 365 days? Or Stardate, perhaps?
I shall try to dig out the exact wording if you are particularly interested. I am fairly sure it is "twelve months", i.e., the same date next year. |
Originally Posted by Calchas
(Post 29475303)
I am fairly sure it is "twelve months", i.e., the same date next year.
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Originally Posted by Calchas
(Post 29475303)
I am fairly sure it is "twelve months", i.e., the same date next year.
Originally Posted by Calchas
(Post 29472123)
You have until one day preceding the date one year hence of your first coupon to commence your final flight.
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I'm currently on the second leg of QR 907 with slightly limited internet connectivity. [But on the plus side, it is complimentary.] Let me see if I can dig out the exact wording when I get home. In the mean time, probably check with [MENTION=204888]JAXBA[/MENTION] for an authoritative answer. |
Originally Posted by anabolism
(Post 29475611)
There does seem to be an element of unclarity. Can the flight flight (or the last sequence of flights) start on the same date as the date of the first flight a year hence, or must it be a day or more earlier than the same date as the date of the first flight?
If your itinerary starts on January 1, 2018, then your itinerary should conclude by December 31, 2018. If you had until the same date in the following year, that would be January 1, 2019, of course. But that's the first day of the next year of your ticket, not the last day of your ticket year. |
Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
(Post 29478769)
Well, I can't speak for IATA, but to me there's no lack of clarity. Starting on the same date won't (or shouldn't) be valid.
If your itinerary starts on January 1, 2018, then your itinerary should conclude by December 31, 2018. If you had until the same date in the following year, that would be January 1, 2019, of course. But that's the first day of the next year of your ticket, not the last day of your ticket year. |
Originally Posted by ernestnywang
(Post 29481802)
But as I (and others) pointed out, a 1M ticket can start on 01APR and ends with a flight departing on 01MAY and arriving on perhaps 03MAY. This is where we see an inconsistency.
(Due to IATA's one month and multiple months definition about the last day of the month and how to count the number of month from that day) Anyway, I will call a ticketing/reservation office of JAL, and report. |
Here we go, thank for your patience.
Resolution 735. I hope this can now answer all questions.PERIOD OF VALIDITY. RESOLVED that, unless otherwise specifically provided in the applicable fares resolutions: 1. The period of validity for tickets issued at one way, round or circle trip fares shall be one year from the date of commencement of travel, or, if the first flight coupon is open-dated, and/or unused from the date of issue thereof. [...] 4. Travel under each flight coupon whether related to a normal or special fare, must be scheduled to commence before midnight, local time at the airport of departure, of the date of expiry shown on such flight coupon. [...] 6. Definitions. [...] 6.2 “MONTH(S)” for the purpose of determining duration of ticket validity, shall mean a period of time from a given date in one month to the corresponding date in a subsequent month, e.g.: one month validity 01 January–01 February; 6.3 “YEAR”, for the purpose of determining the duration of ticket validity, shall mean a period of time from the date of ticket issue or the date of commencement of travel, as applicable, to the corresponding date in the subsequent year, e.g.:two month validity 15 January–15 March; three month validity 30 January–30 April. Exception 1: Where the corresponding date does not exist in a shorter subsequent month, then the month(s) shall mean from a given date in one month to the last day of such shorter subsequent month, e.g. one month validity 30 January–28/29 February. Exception 2: When the “Given Date” is the last day in one month, then the “Corresponding Date” in a subsequent month will be the last day in such subsequent months, e.g.: one month validity 31 January–28/29 February; two month validity 28/29 February–30 April; three month validity 30 April–31 July. one year validity 01 January 89–01 January 90; 28 February 89–28 February 90; 29 February 00–28 February 01. So I believe I was wrong in my above statements: you can commence your final flight on the same date one year after your first coupon commences. For completeness, the government of Brazil apparently objected to this Resolution. The period of validity for tickets issued at normal fares, originating in Brazil, shall be one year from the date of their issuance, for commencement and completion of transportation. |
OK, thanks. So the wording in the rules is sloppy. They don't mean from the last stopover point (as the term "stopover" is understood elsewhere in the rules)... they mean that the last flight coupon must commence no later than one year after the initial flight.
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Originally Posted by Calchas
(Post 29482983)
Here we go, thank for your patience.
Resolution 735. I hope this can now answer all questions.PERIOD OF VALIDITY. RESOLVED that, unless otherwise specifically provided in the applicable fares resolutions: 1. The period of validity for tickets issued at one way, round or circle trip fares shall be one year from the date of commencement of travel, or, if the first flight coupon is open-dated, and/or unused from the date of issue thereof. [...] 4. Travel under each flight coupon whether related to a normal or special fare, must be scheduled to commence before midnight, local time at the airport of departure, of the date of expiry shown on such flight coupon. [...] 6. Definitions. [...] 6.2 “MONTH(S)” for the purpose of determining duration of ticket validity, shall mean a period of time from a given date in one month to the corresponding date in a subsequent month, e.g.: one month validity 01 January–01 February; 6.3 “YEAR”, for the purpose of determining the duration of ticket validity, shall mean a period of time from the date of ticket issue or the date of commencement of travel, as applicable, to the corresponding date in the subsequent year, e.g.:two month validity 15 January–15 March; three month validity 30 January–30 April. Exception 1: Where the corresponding date does not exist in a shorter subsequent month, then the month(s) shall mean from a given date in one month to the last day of such shorter subsequent month, e.g. one month validity 30 January–28/29 February. Exception 2: When the “Given Date” is the last day in one month, then the “Corresponding Date” in a subsequent month will be the last day in such subsequent months, e.g.: one month validity 31 January–28/29 February; two month validity 28/29 February–30 April; three month validity 30 April–31 July. one year validity 01 January 89–01 January 90; 28 February 89–28 February 90; 29 February 00–28 February 01. So I believe I was wrong in my above statements: you can commence your final flight on the same date one year after your first coupon commences. For completeness, the government of Brazil apparently objected to this Resolution. The period of validity for tickets issued at normal fares, originating in Brazil, shall be one year from the date of their issuance, for commencement and completion of transportation. So, AA was wrong in interpreting "12 months" to mean two days prior to the date of the first flight, a year hence. |
I also contacted JAL reservaiton office, and confirmed.
When your first flight of XONEX(Oneworld Explorer) is 01May2017, your last flighty can fly on 01May2018, then arrive on 02May2018. |
Originally Posted by anabolism
(Post 29485855)
So, AA was wrong in interpreting "12 months" to mean two days prior to the date of the first flight, a year hence.
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Originally Posted by henry999
(Post 29486601)
I talked to the AA RTW desk yesterday to make a date change to the DONE4 we're in the middle of now. We started on 28 December '17 and our last flight will now depart on 27 December '18. The change was processed quickly, easily and without any quibbles. :)
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