/RANT ON

I also fondly remember when the OneWorld Forum on Flyertalk was just such a service - where information was shared among fellow-travelers.

This isn't done - at least in the open - anywhere near as much as it used to be, and it's to my mind a real pity. That TiredDoc framed his/her question as one that could best be replied to by PM is symptomatic of the problem.

Is the root cause that airlines really watch this forum like hawks, and by sharing info here, we're alerting them to opportunities they can extinguish? Are we just over-paranoid that this is the case - since the pricing we're discussing is anyway well-known to the airlines themselves? Who knows.

What I do know is that, increasingly often over the years, replies to perfectly reasonable questions from posters (across multiple Flyertalk fora) are some variant of: get a subscription to ExpertFlyer or KVS. While it's true that those two options are in the business of selling fare & availability info - the knee-jerk advertising of their services (instead of sharing of substantive answers) is a real drag, and hardly incentivizes participation.


/RANT OFF

When such fares are found they will be discussed here. I don't think anyone is keeping anything to themselves in respect of xONEx fares.

My question, which was really inappropriately raised as it was off topic, was more about covering the costs of an ATPCO all fares subscription rather than squeezing FTers for profit. :)

Well I for one would welcome a free source for this information; subscribing to a service like EF (or somehow getting access to a GDS where the fares are also listed) is annoying as hell, and a free source would be a great boon. Oneworld used to have a table on its website showing prices, but they pulled that due to the "all-in" rules I mentioned earlier.

I don't know that Oneworld watches this board like a hawk; if they did they'd surely know by now what we think of their POS online booking tool. :rolleyes: But they plainly DO react to information that is spread on this board (and other places) evidence the short-lived MRU, KRT and CAI AONEx and DONEx fares in recent years. In those cases I'm sure it wasn't them being talked about on FT, it was the flood of bookings that resulted. I once visited with one of the terrific people at Mindpearl in Cape Town (back in the boom boom South Africa xONEx days) who said that most of the people she saw buying RTWs ex-SA had some contact with Flyertalk, so I don't doubt for a minute the role this site might play.

I take issue with the sentiments expressed here
Good xONEx fares are still openly discussed in this forum.

The most recent example is from November last year - the ex-Egypt fares due to the devaluation of the EGP

Before that, it was the ex-MPM fares, which had been around for some time (and mentioned on FT). What changed about this time last year was (a) a further devaluation of the MZN and (b) the removal of the rule regarding buying in one country and starting in another (the fare had to be the higher of the two)

To my knowledge, there have been no "good" xONEx fares that have been hidden from the general FT community.

IMHO TiredDoc suggested a PM merely because s/he is a relative noob and doesn't know any better, not because it is symptomatic of anything at all.
(No insult intended TiredDoc)

pandaperth: I didn't mean to impugn the entire forum or its membership; it's just a feeling I've gotten that as fare information becomes harder to come by, the forum has, over time, become a less useful resource than it once was for overcoming the pricing opacity OneWorld prefers for these products.

Long ago, before there even was an online booking tool, this forum was a hive of activity, with members working together to piece together fares as best we were able. For example, recall spreadsheets by WearyBizTrvlr (2005-2008) or Sagy (2009-2012). When OneWorld stopped publishing the fares online (around 2012, I think), the tools stopped working... but also, it seemed that the information exchange in the forum also slowed.

Sure, there were excellent threads on the fares you mentioned (as well as ex-KRT, and others). And to be sure, my remarks weren't to take away from those positive examples.

But I think Gardyloo may be on to something... I guess it was around 2011/2012 when travel blogging really exploded as a mainstream thing, and the rapid dissemination of good deals perhaps led to more circumspect posting of same.

Whatever the cause, surely you'd agree there's less robust discussion now than, say, five or ten years ago...

Anyway, what set off my rant was the suggestion that if I wanted centralized information, there were places I could pay to get it (EF, or KVS). That's certainly true - but demoralizingly transactional.

do xonex fare really get published? it seems to me these fare just stick. all the good deals come from currency movement.

I have two hopefully mundane surface segment questions (that I am nearly certain have been answered previously, but I'm not easily locating):

1. Does a surface segment count towards the max number of flights in a continent? I.E. If I fly into JFK and depart from LGA, does that surface segment count against the maximum (6) flights within North America? [Obviously the surface segment counts against the 16 total permitted.]

2. Does a surface segment count towards that restricted number of longhaul flights in N. America, Australia, or between the U.K. and various countries? I.E. If I fly into JFK and then depart from SFO, does that surface sector (JFK - SFO) count against the limit of 1 nonstop or single plane transcontinental flights in North America?

TIA!

no and no. i believe

1. No.
2. No. However:

Working on my first DONEx itinerary and have a question I haven't seen answered yet: can I credit different segments to different partners or is it all locked to one?

Yes, no problem in principle.

Right. You have to be careful and detail-oriented regarding the logistics, but it's easily doable.

I have two flights that I am changing the date/time only (by only one day). BA issued DONE ticket but they are internal QF flights.

I am being told by BA that there is no availablity for the revised dates for either flight yet QF site shows them as being available to book for cash at the same cost as my original dates. [I'd also note that its a DONE fare but my original booking was in Y as there is no J on the routes in question]

Any thoughts on getting around this ?

Thanks

Can you tell us which flights?

DONE fares on QF may book into D, R, L, or B in that order of precedence:

Is one of those classes available on your desired segment in the LON sales city?

Weirdly the Booking Code Exceptions table has become detached from the BA DONEx fares series but you can still view it on the DONEx fares published by other carriers. This may confuse BA into assuming that D must be used.

Its a DONE5 ticket on BA

I have ASP - AYQ on QF 1941 (16/4) and AYQ - CNS on QF1854 (17/4) confirmed - both in Y though.

Told that no availability at all for following day on either.

Matrix ITA just shows K for both flights

Thanks

[EDIT -- Sorry, I understand now, you want to move your dates to 16/04 and 17/04.]

These flights have seats.

I would call BA again, and then ask them if they know that you are entitled under the fare to book into L class on QF 1941.

They should be able to obtain confirmed reservations immediately on the telephone and then send the ticket off for re-ticketing. Sadly a lot of the competent BA staff have disappeared in recent months. :(

Thanks for the data - will get back to BA

I'm looking at RTW trip so thought I would use this as a tool to get around. But it says on the finder that flights are unavailable on my dates selected.

Even though I found flights on Expedia and Kayak.

Do I have to call? Why cant the OW site find these?

The oneworld round the world booking tool is notoriously unreliable.

Just because you're seeing availability on an OTA doesn't mean the flight is available for purchase as an xONEx (the round the world abbreviation). The seat you're chasing mus come from a specific fare class or bucket. For example, if you're looking at an economy RTW, availability generally needs to be in L class.

If you post a couple of your specific flights we can help to see if there is any availability in the required class.

The RTW ticket is a complex and specialized product that can be a terrific and cost-effective way to travel to multiple continents. Because of the specific rules and inventory, it does require some knowledge to set up, and the on-line tool is somewhat buggy. You can also call the AA RTW desk, which is staffed by agents trained in the products.

Thanks for clarifying.

Im looking at LHR-MVD-CHC-AKL-LHR (getting myself from CHC-AKL)



The trouble is getting from MVD to CHC


Edit: Right Ive played about and found the way to do it, I will just have to fly into AKL and getting my own internal flight in NZ. But now it says I have to call LATAM for a price.

Do I explain the details to them and that its a OW RTW? Anyone have experience calling them on this before?

The only OW flights into CHC are from SYD & BNE (Australia).
MVD-SCL-AKL then pay your way AKL CHC on Air NZ or Jestar

Or MVD-SCL-SYD-CHC

Their is no OW service AKL-LHR.
Will have to be AKL-xxx-LHR. xxx could be SYD, HKG, or DOH. Maybe others

AKL-LHR transfer points available for xONEx.

SYD
MEL
PER (after March, seasonal)
LAX (seasonal)
HKG
DOH
SCL

Found a routing but couldn't price and said I have to call LATAM for a price.

Do I explain the details to them and that its a OW RTW? Anyone have experience calling LATAM on this before?

Every oneworld airline is authorized to issue RTW tickets.

I would not advise using LATAM myself unless you have an existing relationship with them.

Another oneworld airline (JL/CX/AA/QF/BA) is probably going to be easier to deal with.

I'll call BA then. Just the usual booking number but mentioning it's OW Explorer when talking to the operator?

Yes be clear that you want to book a round the world ticket. This is something that is not something most staff can do and you may have to be passed around on the phone and it will go to the back office to be priced.

Have all the details of the flights you found on the online tool in front of you.

Set aside some time for this.

Also BA may not want to ticket it unless they are operating a long flight on your ticket.

Thanks to all for your help. I guess that might be the case, wonder who makes money off these tickets!

The first flight I'm looking at is LHR to MVD via GRU, with BA on the LHR-GRU segment. and HKG-LHR on BA, hopefully that should be enough to keep them keen to ticket!!

I don't know about keen :D but yes they should be willing to ticket it with one longhaul flight.

I don't think the ticketing carrier makes any money, only the codeshare/operating carriers on the ticket.

If you're an xONEx veteran, you already know this; however, if you're relatively new to this world remember to keep checking the itineraries for changes. I start a 16 segment DONE4 ex-CAI next week and was just reviewing it flight by flight. It was booked with AA; and I printed the entire itinerary from the AA system. I have found a few minor flight schedule changes. While in my case they turn out to be inconsequential, they may not be for you. I always do a detailed review about ten days out, then a final one a day or two before departure of the first flight.

An example? I had booked AA 1039 BOS-LAX departing at 1825 on July 13th. It's now been changed to AA 305 (instead of 1039) departing at 1802 (instead of 1825). I ended up finding five or six changes of similar ilk, flight number and small time changes. Then I go through the itinerary and check the seat assignments in case of equipment changes.

As I said, small and inconsequential changes in my case, but you should always check.

Edited to add: It turns out that a number of the seats I had selected have been unassigned, so I have to go through and select seats for those flights again.

Dr. HFH

Great advice. I do the same. I had more drastic changes couple of times when desired long layovers (less than 24 hours, by design) were shorten. e.g. I frequently use looooong layover in LHR so I pop into the city for visits.

I have a misconnect down the road, segment 6, due to a schedule change.

Do I need to deal with this prior to segment 1, or can I fly the first couple flights first?

The ticket is issued by QF (who I cant get thru to, do they have a special rtw desk?) - and the schedule change involves an AA flight. Can I just fly the first couple segments and then call AA RTW to make changes?

what's the price of the various ex-JAPAN xDONEs, given that it's been stated those are currently cheapest but oneworld explorer won't actually price it out online but demands I call in? Or is there a way for me to find out?

DONE3: USD $5,881.76
DONE4: USD $6,993.94
DONE5: USD $8,022.78

(according to EF)

and the DONE6 is 978,200JPY (~USD8,802)
again according to EF

It's up to you. You can wait and deal with it later if you prefer. There might be other changes by then.

I thought Mozambique was cheapest (although not nearly as cheap as it once was)? Tools such as ExpertFlyer will tell you the base fare.

Thank you to all who helped with me.

After so jigging around I managed to get a price on the OW website. I assume it's a standard price regardless of which flight you pick on the relevant leg?

One last rank amateur question, Im just about to book, waiting on TA do you get one PNR for the booking?

Different airlines do charge different YQ (aka Fuel Surcharges)
The base fare and the various taxes and fees will not change

Yes - one PNR for the whole itineray

Yes, it is cheaper:

DONE4: USD6051
DONE5: USD6897
DONE6: USD8388

But, if you don't actually want to go to Africa, then you are adding an unwanted continent - and the result is next to no saving compared to Japan

Edited to add:
Last year, prior to 1-August, the base fares were:

DONE4: USD2753
DONE5: USD3138
DONE6: USD3815
(see this post - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26964795-post311.html-)