asnovici

I agree with you that if everyone int the gate understood that there really are 2 lines, then the problem would be solved. NW already has signs posted that explain the usage of the red carper line, however the description and presentaion of the signs leave a lot to be desired. The signs are not obvious enough and the general public does not understand what it means. Most elites know about these red carpet lines, but the general public will most likely never read the signs anyway. Twice a year ma' n pa' crowd will never understand it, considering how airline operations is a big mystery to them in the first place.

itsaboutthejourney

I fully agree with bocastephen.

And as others have said, this is a great way for NW to add some much needed luster and attention to it's F/J class.

It costs NW hardly anything, but if the program worked, it would be a great "perk" to the Elite program.

Based on all of the above, it puzzles me that NW can't get it right.

IceTrojan

You never did answer the question, do you use other elite lines?

Let's say there's a flight cancellation at the ticket counter, there's 50 people in the regular line, and no one in the premium lines (to the point that the premium agent is taking people from the regular line).... which line do you line up in?

lotalota

I would go in the elite line. But don't you see how this would be viewed differently by the non-elite pax? In the situation you describe, there are clearly two lines and two agents. And probably a sign above the second line saying "Elite".

At the gate, during general boarding, the average person (right or wrong) could understandably see the boarding lane as one line. Yes, I know there is a sign and a red carpet, but the problem here is that this is not clear to uneducated pax and a decent number of gate agents. While we as pax may do what we think is right, shouldn't NW do something to address this lack of clarity?

IceTrojan

So by your reasoning, if the ticket counter didn't have clear signage, yet YOU knew there was an elite line (let's say there's a special carpet), then you would get in line with everyone else?

Or a real example at security, where several airports have a tiny sign pointing to the elite line (SJC and LAS come to mind) and not even a special carpet... since that sign isn't clear to the "average person" who, right or wrong, think you're cutting in line, then you would get in the 150 deep-person line, rather than use the elite line YOU know you're entitled to use?

I agree it's NW's responsibility to get their GAs trained, but it seems the argument being made is that because NW hasn't educated the GAs, the elites shouldn't p.o. the regular pax and hurt their feelings by boarding in front of them.

thezipper

I've only used it a few times as I'm normally boarding with F or Elites... I think some additional traning needs to be done and some additional signage. This is an example of signs used in Japan, which I think would better help pax to understand what the lane is really about.... which is where I think lotalota is coming from.

lotalota

Yes, this would be the answer for me. In my experience there is always signage at ticket counters, but on the off chance there wasn't the answer would be yes.

I've not seen those signs, but if the signs were clearly written then I would use the elite line. I've not seen the signs you mention, but when I've had the occasion to use these lines I've always found the signs clear.

Yes, this elite member doesn't want to "p.o. the regular pax and hurt their feelings" as I personally feel that is rude. I am not telling you what to do. I am annoyed with my favorite airline for putting me in this position and feel it is their responsibility to communicate this to the GA's and pax more clearly.

DBruce49

I have also experienced the same problems of confusion and gate agents not being fully aware flying CO from IAH, so I wouldn't presume that CO has it all figured out.

While GA's can perhaps be trained to follow the procedures and signs made larger, I think there will always be inexperienced flyers for whom this will be confusing. Often people are tired when flying and simply follow others like sheep. I frequently encounter non-elites or non-FC passengers in lines for pre-boarding. (Some of those are even experienced passengers just trying to get a leg up on the others.)

The ability for elite to board "at their leisure" can be very beneficial when connecting from a late arriving flight. Not only does this allow the elite member to get settled and possibly snag space in an o/h bin, it mean his/her seat is not given away.

pmaddock

Well I'm certainly with the crowd that follows what NW posts on their website and the implications of the signage. I remember NW rather loudly proclaiming the implementation of the red carpet a year ago and anxiously awaiting a CO like experience. Its certainly something I missed after migrating to CO. However, its become clear that NW is still having issues implementing their own policy.

So, I suggest 2 actions:
1. make a solemn promise to yourself that each time we see GAs failing to meet the policy that we are sure to note the flt, gate, and GA name if possible and send in those TTUs. Perhaps a stream of complaints will get a message through.
2. Print out the policy at http://www.nwa.com/worldperks/elite/airport.shtmlfrom the NW website and keep a copy in your carryon. If you run into a defiant GA that wants to give you a hard time - just apologize, hand it to the GA, and say you're following the rules as you understand them. More than likely they'll board you thinking its the fastest way to get you out of their admittedly harried life.


Oh - as for those who think the whole thing is rude/snobby/etc - I would suggest changing airlines. If you follow such thinking to its logical conclusion clearly you'd be more at home flying Southwest. They have almost no differential in the way they treat a frequent flyer vs. a first time flyer. Mainline airlines are clearly not for you. There is a rather large pool of evidence throughout this board that most mainlines implement a variety of customer differentiation policies that would likely conflict with your sense of fairness.

Derrico

Well said.

The fact is that every part of an elite program is unfair if one wants to see it that way. They don't call it the NW frequent flyer equality program. The point is to reward those who due to their work or personal needs cause them to fly a lot.

The elite programs are for those that have to drudge to the airport twice a week take off their shoes so many times the heals wear out early, and leave their shampoo and aftershave in a 6 inch by 9 inch plastic bag even when they are home. For those travelers some airlines have decided to give them a few benefits.

As a 6'4 guy I find flying uncomfortable and tiring. If an airline wants to give me a few perks to make my life easier I do not see that as an act of repressing the masses.

The idea is simple, when you are late from a connection, you see a huge line, just walk up show your boarding pass and walk on board. Continental has done it for years, and it works great. Once this is in place and enforced by knowledgeable GAs it is no longer an issue. Regular pax do not sit around an fume about it. They know they can fly the BIS miles to get status if they want to.

lotalota

For me, the point here is only in the implementation. If NW did a better job at educating pax and GA's, then they wouldn't put us in this position. What position? Having other pax think we are being rude to them by cutting in line. If the sign was clear and the general announcement specified this perk, then there wouldn't be a problem.

So no, there is no reason to change airlines. There is sufficient reason for my airline to improve the way they communicate, however.

ijgordon

Wow, I have never seen such self-righteous cr@p as what's coming from artemis021 and lotalota. You know what, if you don't want to use the line, then don't. But no one here wants to hear why you think it's inconsiderate, rude, unfair, or whatever word you use to describe it.

Go to Asia and fly a world-class carrier, say Cathay Pacific. You will note at boarding that there are separate lines for First/Business Class and Economy Class. What NW is trying to do and what CO has successfully done is no different, they've just extended the eligibility of the premium line. Now usually, CX will have multiple people scanning BPs, usually at least one for F/J and one for Y, in part because of the sheer number of pax they're loading onto the planes. My take from your comments, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that this scenario is OK in your mind, as you're not really cutting anyone by using the F/J line, since it's "separate".

Now go back to NW, and since it's usually a much smaller plane we're talking about, there's only one GA scanning BPs. THAT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. It's still a separate line, and there's a sign, carpet and rope indicating as such. Add an announcement on the p/a as suggested above, and it should be clear to all passengers (even the non-elites) exactly what is going on. And hey, it can even be an incentive for non-elites to strive for elite status, since it's one of the few elite benefits that is wholly transparent to non-elites (upgrades don't count, non-elites have no idea how the pax got to sit in those seats).

Anyway, there was certainly some snickering back a few years ago when CO first instituted the blue carpet ("what a waste of money!") but I think you can tell from the comments from the CO fliers (and the AA fliers who don't have it) that everyone has come around, and the program is well-appreciated. I assume you'll come around too sooner or later.

mikey1003

In this case etiquette does not apply. The Red Carpet is there and some of us are supposed to use it. It this case GA was clearly wrong.

Etiquette and perks are not synonymous!


We earned it (NW offered it) we get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mikey1003

Ya wanna talk about boarding line etiquette, look at the once, or twice, a year near deads hovering around like gate lice on the way to MIA, FLL or PBI.

SchmutzigMSP

At least (most of) the airports in the U.S. even have the space near the gate to do separate boarding lanes. After traveling a bit this past week inside of Europe on KLM, the whole concept of Elite/Elite Plus (and even Europe Select) pre-boarding is lost on nearly everyone: certainly the other passengers, and most of the time the gate agents don't bother with it. People hear the announcement for Elite/Elite Plus boarding and everyone boards...and the GA does nothing to stop them. If you want to board first, you literally do have to push your way into the front of the line.

Really, all the little things we get as elites in the U.S. are pretty much non-existent in intra-European travel on KLM, except a select few airports where they actually have two scanners at some of the gates.

I think after returning from Europe, I'm not going to mind using the red carpet one bit...