Boarding Lane Etiquette
Mar 15, 2007, 6:07 pm
#121
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At least (most of) the airports in the U.S. even have the space near the gate to do separate boarding lanes. After traveling a bit this past week inside of Europe on KLM, the whole concept of Elite/Elite Plus (and even Europe Select) pre-boarding is lost on nearly everyone: certainly the other passengers, and most of the time the gate agents don't bother with it. People hear the announcement for Elite/Elite Plus boarding and everyone boards...and the GA does nothing to stop them. If you want to board first, you literally do have to push your way into the front of the line.
Really, all the little things we get as elites in the U.S. are pretty much non-existent in intra-European travel on KLM, except a select few airports where they actually have two scanners at some of the gates.
I think after returning from Europe, I'm not going to mind using the red carpet one bit...
Really, all the little things we get as elites in the U.S. are pretty much non-existent in intra-European travel on KLM, except a select few airports where they actually have two scanners at some of the gates.
I think after returning from Europe, I'm not going to mind using the red carpet one bit...
Mar 15, 2007, 6:21 pm
#122
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I have been pretty clear about my stance on this (You will get my perks when you pry them form my cold dead hands) but I have got to take my hat off to artemus021 and lotalota. 120 posts and 9 pages later and you are hanging in there! I do feel a bit awkward sometimes and NW should make it clear to its employees and the public that the elite line is there and may be used but I do not feel like I am being rude at all. We can agree to disagree on that but if I blow by you in the fast (elite) lane please do not take it as being rude..I"m just trying to get in to FC so I don't miss my pre-departure Bloody Mary 
Mar 15, 2007, 7:26 pm
#123
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
I haven't read the entire thread (only 3 pages worth), but I see it like this:
1) It's not rude or being a jerk to use the benefit that NW has clearly stated in written terms. Whether or not others around you understand this is irrelevant. If the GA does not understand this, then it surely indicates poor training and that agent needs to go back to school. I'm not trying to be crass, but it's a benefit, and they seem to be able to get other benefits (elite pre-boarding, gate upgrades, etc) right most of the time.
2) I think of the red carpet like a merging lane on a highway: some people got on mile before you, perhaps many minutes before you. You happen to live closer to the destination and you're just merging into the flow. It's part of your "benefit" of living closer that you get to merge into the same flow, at a later time, and still make it to the same destination at the same time.
Seems easy enough and clear cut to me.
1) It's not rude or being a jerk to use the benefit that NW has clearly stated in written terms. Whether or not others around you understand this is irrelevant. If the GA does not understand this, then it surely indicates poor training and that agent needs to go back to school. I'm not trying to be crass, but it's a benefit, and they seem to be able to get other benefits (elite pre-boarding, gate upgrades, etc) right most of the time.
2) I think of the red carpet like a merging lane on a highway: some people got on mile before you, perhaps many minutes before you. You happen to live closer to the destination and you're just merging into the flow. It's part of your "benefit" of living closer that you get to merge into the same flow, at a later time, and still make it to the same destination at the same time.
Seems easy enough and clear cut to me.
Mar 15, 2007, 8:41 pm
#124
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MSP
Programs: Lapsed DL North PE, now nothing
Posts: 701
It is not my intention to beat a dead horse or prolong a discussion that has no endpoint. But my whole reason for continuing to post on this topic is that it IS relevant to me what the customers around me think. Specifically, I do not like the fact that they get angry at me when they incorrectly think I'm cutting in line. While this may not bother everyone, it does bother me. I don't want to be in this situation and, if it presents itself, I will go to the back of the line to avoid it. And yes, you can tell me to grow a pair, blah, blah, blah.
I would like NW to prevent this by better communication. It's as simple as that.
I would like NW to prevent this by better communication. It's as simple as that.
Mar 15, 2007, 9:32 pm
#125
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Providence, RI
Programs: DM , MM ,Natl-Exec Elite,HH diamond,SPG gold
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i don't let people merge in fronyt of me either, don't like the practice, fly Cattle Air...oh Southwest 
You can't clip your toenails in McDs-no shirt, no shoes, no service. I never, however, see any signs at any stadiums prohibiting the practice.
And you can do a lot of talking before you get kicked out of a library or theater for talking loudly. The point is, you can do a whole lot of things that are rude and inconsiderate without breaking any laws. You can go up to every single person you meet and tell them how ugly they are. You can grab the back of people's seats when you're on a plane. You can pound your knees into the back of their chair. There's dozens of things you CAN do but you SHOULDN'T do.
If you go to the front of a line, you are cutting. You might be justified in cutting in, like you've just found out your car is stolen or your mom is having a heart attack and you need to use the phone, but you are cutting in line.
I'm not arguing that NW doesn't give you the right to cut in line. I'm just saying that if a bunch of people, who patiently waited while elite boarding was called and then lined up when they were told they could board, it's rude to pull rank and go the front of the line. Cutting in, as it were.
And it's not hypocritical to say this perk shouldn't be used but others can. People who don't fly alot are never going to get a seat in First. They know this. They know that elites get to board when they are called before everyone else. They also aren't standing in line, in formation, waiting for their turn to get on the plane.
They do not know-nor, apparently-does many NW employees-that very frequent flyers can board at any time. It's just snotty to get in the front of the line. NW may have given you special perks because you give them a lot of business, but you did nothing special to the people you're going in front of. The vast majority of flyers aren't "elite" and they should be respected as well.
Everyone knows what the express line is. And everyone knows that "elites" get boarded first. And people can see the signs for the special security and check in lines-and those lines, for the most part, are respected.
And you can look at that little red carpet and think, okay, so they get to feel special when they walk through and are called up before everyone else. But now it's the general boarding line's turn.
By going in front of that person, you're basically implying that you are more important than they are, and you don't have to display basic courtesy because you are "elite." Because that's what waiting in line is. It's showing basic courtesy, taking into consideration that all those people behind you wouldn't understand or know (and certainly don't care) that NW has a little-known rule that lets you cut in line.
See, basic courtesy is why you don't grab people's seat backs, and why you let the car who's trying to merge go in front of you, and why people don't clip their nails or pick their nose or do other unsavory things in public. It's not that you don't want to do those things, it's not because you don't have a right to do those things, it's because you're thinking of the effects on other people.
I know, it's a difficult concept to grasp.
And you can do a lot of talking before you get kicked out of a library or theater for talking loudly. The point is, you can do a whole lot of things that are rude and inconsiderate without breaking any laws. You can go up to every single person you meet and tell them how ugly they are. You can grab the back of people's seats when you're on a plane. You can pound your knees into the back of their chair. There's dozens of things you CAN do but you SHOULDN'T do.
If you go to the front of a line, you are cutting. You might be justified in cutting in, like you've just found out your car is stolen or your mom is having a heart attack and you need to use the phone, but you are cutting in line.
I'm not arguing that NW doesn't give you the right to cut in line. I'm just saying that if a bunch of people, who patiently waited while elite boarding was called and then lined up when they were told they could board, it's rude to pull rank and go the front of the line. Cutting in, as it were.
And it's not hypocritical to say this perk shouldn't be used but others can. People who don't fly alot are never going to get a seat in First. They know this. They know that elites get to board when they are called before everyone else. They also aren't standing in line, in formation, waiting for their turn to get on the plane.
They do not know-nor, apparently-does many NW employees-that very frequent flyers can board at any time. It's just snotty to get in the front of the line. NW may have given you special perks because you give them a lot of business, but you did nothing special to the people you're going in front of. The vast majority of flyers aren't "elite" and they should be respected as well.
Everyone knows what the express line is. And everyone knows that "elites" get boarded first. And people can see the signs for the special security and check in lines-and those lines, for the most part, are respected.
And you can look at that little red carpet and think, okay, so they get to feel special when they walk through and are called up before everyone else. But now it's the general boarding line's turn.
By going in front of that person, you're basically implying that you are more important than they are, and you don't have to display basic courtesy because you are "elite." Because that's what waiting in line is. It's showing basic courtesy, taking into consideration that all those people behind you wouldn't understand or know (and certainly don't care) that NW has a little-known rule that lets you cut in line.
See, basic courtesy is why you don't grab people's seat backs, and why you let the car who's trying to merge go in front of you, and why people don't clip their nails or pick their nose or do other unsavory things in public. It's not that you don't want to do those things, it's not because you don't have a right to do those things, it's because you're thinking of the effects on other people.
I know, it's a difficult concept to grasp.
Mar 15, 2007, 10:44 pm
#126
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Specifically, I do not like the fact that they get angry at me when they incorrectly think I'm cutting in line. While this may not bother everyone, it does bother me. I don't want to be in this situation and, if it presents itself, I will go to the back of the line to avoid it. And yes, you can tell me to grow a pair, blah, blah, blah.
I would like NW to prevent this by better communication. It's as simple as that.
I would like NW to prevent this by better communication. It's as simple as that.
Some on this board have either changed your mind or you really have done a poor job of conveying your true thoughts on the subject. Which is it? That is the trouble with print....it is all there for everyone to read and double check what you wrote.
If the above, is truly how you felt from the beginning, then I would suggest that you write more clearly your thoughts in the future. The whole "cutting in line" thing is what most on this thread were challenging you about.
I think everyone agrees that NWA needs to do a better job with the communication of this program benefit.
Mar 15, 2007, 11:11 pm
#127
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Posts: 742
Just to save everyone time, I put together just a few of lotalota's quotes. It was good for me to go back and read too. I see lotalota started to change the tune on post #104 which the last of these quotes. Unfortunately, the quote in post #124 rubbed ME the wrong way (yes, I just should have let it go.)
"IMHO, you should have gone to the back of the line. It was your fault for being late."
"I personally don't think the "jump in line" red carpet boarding is a good thing. And if I were making the decision for the industry, I'd do away with the whole thing."
"Perhaps it is the midwesterner in me, but the whole idea of jumping ahead in line due to status really rubs me the wrong way."
"For me there is something just plain wrong with cutting in line."
"..it would seem logical that most people (whether by ignorance, or not) would see this practice as cutting into a line that has a single endpoint: the airplane."
"I see a difference between what is legal/illegal and what is right/wrong. In my eyes this is a right/wrong situation."
"To all the references to my earlier posts: My statements about right/wrong apply only to the way I behave. If I gave the impression of criticizing you because you do what the rule allows, I apologize. I was only writing about how I feel about it, and what I will do or not do."
"IMHO, you should have gone to the back of the line. It was your fault for being late."
"I personally don't think the "jump in line" red carpet boarding is a good thing. And if I were making the decision for the industry, I'd do away with the whole thing."
"Perhaps it is the midwesterner in me, but the whole idea of jumping ahead in line due to status really rubs me the wrong way."
"For me there is something just plain wrong with cutting in line."
"..it would seem logical that most people (whether by ignorance, or not) would see this practice as cutting into a line that has a single endpoint: the airplane."
"I see a difference between what is legal/illegal and what is right/wrong. In my eyes this is a right/wrong situation."
"To all the references to my earlier posts: My statements about right/wrong apply only to the way I behave. If I gave the impression of criticizing you because you do what the rule allows, I apologize. I was only writing about how I feel about it, and what I will do or not do."
Mar 16, 2007, 12:02 am
#128
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: GRB
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I think of the red carpet like a merging lane on a highway: some people got on mile before you, perhaps many minutes before you. You happen to live closer to the destination and you're just merging into the flow. It's part of your "benefit" of living closer that you get to merge into the same flow, at a later time, and still make it to the same destination at the same time.
Seems easy enough and clear cut to me.
Seems easy enough and clear cut to me.
On the same flight 4 people from a presidential campaign team more or less shoved in front of us and were escorted down the jet bridge and seated before FC
Mar 16, 2007, 4:04 am
#129
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
I think that gets at the awkward scenario that slippahs pointed out many pages ago. Usually if I'm seated in F, I'll use the black carpet. Even when elites are called, I use the black carpet. But if general boarding has been called, I'll almost always use the red carpet (when applicable) because I cannot have my carry-on luggage checked and I flatly refuse to put my carry-on bag above row 20 because some jerk from row 12 took my overhead space in row 5, for example. Hence, I will try to get on ASAP when I have overhead baggage. If I have an item that fits underneath my seat, I couldn't care less when I board, unless I'm a window, in which case I also try to board early so I don't have to climb over people to get to my seat or make them get up (see, I'm using the red carpet in this case out of pure consideration for others).
Mar 16, 2007, 7:08 am
#130
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MSP
Programs: Lapsed DL North PE, now nothing
Posts: 701
Wildman
Yes, I did change my mind somewhat during this long exchange. You are correct.
Yes, I did change my mind somewhat during this long exchange. You are correct.
Last edited by lotalota; Mar 16, 2007 at 9:13 am
Mar 16, 2007, 7:31 am
#131
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: FNT, Michigan
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For no good reason I never use the red carpet but on a trip last week was first in line (on the black carpet) for pre-boarding FC and someone walked up on the red carpet and butted in front of me. We ended up seated next to each other and had an enjoyable conversation on the way home. Was glad I kept my mouth shut.
It seems that a few GA's agree with me, as the elites that tried to butt in around the rest of us FC pax and elites in the general line during pre-boarding were ignored until the rest of us were processed through. ^ It just seems to me to be bad form to walk around an already-established queue of FC and/or elite pax to try to use an empty "Elite" lane to cut in front of everybody. Certainly questionable when you may end up next to the person you just butt in front of.
On the same flight 4 people from a presidential campaign team more or less shoved in front of us and were escorted down the jet bridge and seated before FC
Last edited by dmitzel; Mar 16, 2007 at 7:33 am Reason: Grammar correction.
Mar 16, 2007, 8:03 am
#132
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Mar 16, 2007, 8:20 am
#133
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Mar 16, 2007, 10:19 am
#134
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Mar 16, 2007, 12:50 pm
#135
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Not sure this applies to NW but on CO you *are* supposed to use the special carpet when seated in F. Not my problem if you're in the wrong line. I'll go up the elite/F line and a CO GA will grab my boarding pass before you, every time. I got zero qualms about correctly following the procedure the airline puts out.