Coronavirus in Sweden
Aug 26, 2020, 2:23 am
#991
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It is a bit weird that a self administered test has counted in the official numbers (if that is truly what happened), but I guess Sweden would have been desperate to be seen to get the number of tests up.
Aug 26, 2020, 2:27 am
#992
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When I read the article the first time, there was no time period indicated, but I had the feeling that it was talking about very recent tests. But now they've actually updated the article with new information that it's from March to August. When listening to Dr. Ola Winqvist, it actually sounds like it started in June, when the government was pushing for increased testing. The original article said that it's a self test. As far as I can remember, the self testing started in June.
Aug 26, 2020, 9:02 am
#993
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The coronavirus situation in Sweden came with a backlog for mail/packages to be processed by Swedish customs. That, foreign slowdowns in postal services also has been a factor in why mail/packages sent to Sweden have been rather slow. Online shopping boom was a factor.
The state-supporting propaganda says that the higher rate of Swedish kids being reported as sick from schools in parts this month is due to people adhering to guidelines to not show up to school if having even the slightest of symptoms that may relate to Covid-19, and that we should expect this. What that kind of response fails to consider is that there were no reports of the proportion of (open school) classes absent for reported sickness being this high (or higher) during the March-June school period.
My conclusion too is something like yours: that the idea of open schools being able to contain SARS-COV2 is a pipe dream.
The state-supporting propaganda says that the higher rate of Swedish kids being reported as sick from schools in parts this month is due to people adhering to guidelines to not show up to school if having even the slightest of symptoms that may relate to Covid-19, and that we should expect this. What that kind of response fails to consider is that there were no reports of the proportion of (open school) classes absent for reported sickness being this high (or higher) during the March-June school period.
My conclusion too is something like yours: that the idea of open schools being able to contain SARS-COV2 is a pipe dream.
The problem with the slightest of symptoms is that if the absence is over 10 days then the school might start threatening parents. Gymnasiums in Denmark started recommending mask when the kids are outside their classrooms.
Aug 26, 2020, 10:16 am
#994
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Welcome to Sweden where the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. It will show up with children being advised to not show up at school with symptoms and to stay away for X days after and then parents/guardians getting notices about problematic school attendance records despite having already called up the school to inform them of each absence. 
Someone really should start asking for school records on teacher sickness absences in August this year and compare it to prior years' August teacher sickness absences.
That's only one of the many strange things with Sweden's response to the coronavirus situation. Apparently one or two of the approved tests used in Sweden can't even reliably distinguish between the test of an individual with low levels of the virus and negative test samples.
Due to the coronavirus panedmic in Sweden, Swedish healthcare facilities in parts will be eliminating a lot of healthcare and other support workers. And on top of that, the regional authorities in charge of healthcare are looking for additional healthcare cost-cutting due to this pandemic. Stockholm is the first to be hit hard by such cuts.
Someone really should start asking for school records on teacher sickness absences in August this year and compare it to prior years' August teacher sickness absences.
Due to the coronavirus panedmic in Sweden, Swedish healthcare facilities in parts will be eliminating a lot of healthcare and other support workers. And on top of that, the regional authorities in charge of healthcare are looking for additional healthcare cost-cutting due to this pandemic. Stockholm is the first to be hit hard by such cuts.
Aug 27, 2020, 1:19 am
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The pandemic hit on Sweden's economy can now be compared to what happened to Norway's economy as well.
The badly hit 2nd quarter's damage in economic terms:
Sweden's GDP, -8.6%
Denmark's GDP, -7.4%
Norway's GDP, -6.3%
And the damage in deaths per capita with this virus was also way worse in Sweden than in Denmark and Norway. Quite clearly, the relative lack of shutdown in Sweden hasn't delivered Sweden relatively better economic or death outcomes than its Scandinavian neighbors with their shutdowns.
Courtesy of Danish mask requirements, mask use on public transit buses and trains in southern Sweden has increased quite a bit. Not surprising. That Danish requirement sort of lowers the cost of mask use in southern Sweden since the passengers have masks and will have to use them for Denmark anyway; and so using them for a bit longer — by keeping them on for a trip’s Swedish portions — is no big deal.
Sweden has extended its foreign visitor travel ban so it will now expire at the end of October instead of the end of this August.
Tegnell & Co have authorized public event gatherings of up to 500 people. That is an increase from the 50 person limit that had been in place for months. They want people to still maintain 1 meter distance at these events. Given these are now going to mean mainly indoor events, the 1m distance thing is probably not going to be all that effective a barrier from this virus spreading further within Sweden.
The badly hit 2nd quarter's damage in economic terms:
Sweden's GDP, -8.6%
Denmark's GDP, -7.4%
Norway's GDP, -6.3%
And the damage in deaths per capita with this virus was also way worse in Sweden than in Denmark and Norway. Quite clearly, the relative lack of shutdown in Sweden hasn't delivered Sweden relatively better economic or death outcomes than its Scandinavian neighbors with their shutdowns.
Courtesy of Danish mask requirements, mask use on public transit buses and trains in southern Sweden has increased quite a bit. Not surprising. That Danish requirement sort of lowers the cost of mask use in southern Sweden since the passengers have masks and will have to use them for Denmark anyway; and so using them for a bit longer — by keeping them on for a trip’s Swedish portions — is no big deal.
Sweden has extended its foreign visitor travel ban so it will now expire at the end of October instead of the end of this August.
Tegnell & Co have authorized public event gatherings of up to 500 people. That is an increase from the 50 person limit that had been in place for months. They want people to still maintain 1 meter distance at these events. Given these are now going to mean mainly indoor events, the 1m distance thing is probably not going to be all that effective a barrier from this virus spreading further within Sweden.
Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 27, 2020 at 8:18 am
Aug 28, 2020, 5:14 am
#996
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Corrected figures show that the GDP in Sweden fell with 8.3% in 2Q 2020 compared to 1Q. Exports fell by a huge 18%, basically confirming what I've written earlier in this thread that Sweden's GDP collapse is mostly due to the restrictions that were introduced in other countries.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/ekonomi/h...ndra-kvartalet
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/ekonomi/h...ndra-kvartalet
Aug 28, 2020, 6:25 am
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Still goes to show that Sweden's economy did substantially worse than its Scandinavian neighbors who locked down while Sweden was "open for business" during the period.
Norway's economy and Denmark's economy in the 2nd quarter did better than Sweden's during the peak damage, 2nd quarter, and they both also got hit "due to the restrictions that were introduced in other countries".
Interesting survey results:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/27/w...ntl/index.html
Norway's economy and Denmark's economy in the 2nd quarter did better than Sweden's during the peak damage, 2nd quarter, and they both also got hit "due to the restrictions that were introduced in other countries".
Interesting survey results:
Originally Posted by CNN
Among other findings in the survey, women in every country are more likely than men to say their lives have changed because of the crisis, with a gap as high as 15 points in the United States, France and Sweden.
And perhaps most surprising of all, in Sweden -- which famously put almost no restrictions in place to stop the spread of the virus -- more than seven out of 10 people (71%) said their lives had changed a great deal as a result of the outbreak. That's the second highest percentage of any country in the survey, behind South Korea (81%), which put sweeping restrictions in place.
And perhaps most surprising of all, in Sweden -- which famously put almost no restrictions in place to stop the spread of the virus -- more than seven out of 10 people (71%) said their lives had changed a great deal as a result of the outbreak. That's the second highest percentage of any country in the survey, behind South Korea (81%), which put sweeping restrictions in place.
Aug 28, 2020, 2:09 pm
#998
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Good thing btw that the test station at CPH airport tests everybody for free currently. The demand is there, I waited 1.5h and constantly new people arrived by car or on foot.
Aug 28, 2020, 3:01 pm
#999
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Sweden:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bar...er-01596614405
Denmark and Finland:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...f/17/08/%3famp
Norway:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile..../idUSL8N2FR1QB
The IMF and World Bank had these same numbers too, numbers that come from the government stats agencies of each country and are used by the central banks.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bar...er-01596614405
Denmark and Finland:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...f/17/08/%3famp
Norway:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile..../idUSL8N2FR1QB
The IMF and World Bank had these same numbers too, numbers that come from the government stats agencies of each country and are used by the central banks.
Aug 29, 2020, 1:36 am
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Still goes to show that Sweden's economy did substantially worse than its Scandinavian neighbors who locked down while Sweden was "open for business" during the period.
Norway's economy and Denmark's economy in the 2nd quarter did better than Sweden's during the peak damage, 2nd quarter, and they both also got hit "due to the restrictions that were introduced in other countries".
Norway's economy and Denmark's economy in the 2nd quarter did better than Sweden's during the peak damage, 2nd quarter, and they both also got hit "due to the restrictions that were introduced in other countries".
https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/de...424010896.html
At the same time, Swedish border stores lost out big. 2Q 2019 saw NOK 4.1 billion in border sales, while 2Q 2020 saw NOK 28 million.
Aug 29, 2020, 2:51 am
#1001
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@RedChili, but the outcome is what it is. Sweden's economy suffered and more people died in Sweden. If a lockdown had positive effects on Norway, why not on Sweden?
Before I buy something in Sweden, I rather shop on Amazon. Even with shipping costs its often cheaper. The variety of offered goods outside Stockholm is also very limited.
Before I buy something in Sweden, I rather shop on Amazon. Even with shipping costs its often cheaper. The variety of offered goods outside Stockholm is also very limited.
Aug 29, 2020, 6:34 am
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Indeed the variety of goods offered at brick and mortar stores in Sweden being limited is an issue and has been for just about always once you get out of the Stockholm area.
I have been looking at the specifics for each neighboring country, but the fact is that Sweden didn't outperform its neighbors on net in terms of economic performance and in terms of minimizing damage on lives and health of its inhabitants.
Would you have us slice and dice things until no comparison in the world is possible; or should we slice and dice things just a little or a lot and conclude that Sweden's per capita death figures for this virus are way more discrediting of the Swedish response because Sweden should have came into this pandemic with better underlying conditions than its neighbors and yet Sweden's economy didn't make any relative gains over its neighbor despite being "open for business"?
Swedish retailers got economically hit during this pandemic even far from the Swedish borders. The pandemic situation exacerbated many trends that were already in play with Swedish and other area consumers. And Swedish shops have sort of done it to themselves.
Once again, you're making the mistake of not looking at the specifics for each country. The fact is that retail stores in Norway gained by the lockdown. Unlike most other countries, Norway experienced a real shopping boom during the lockdown, because people couldn't spend their money on traveling and because they were not allowed to travel to Sweden. But the same lockdown which benefited Norwegian retail stores, also hurt Swedish retail stores. Some analysts believe that the Norwegian shopping boom saved about 100,000 jobs:
https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/de...424010896.html
At the same time, Swedish border stores lost out big. 2Q 2019 saw NOK 4.1 billion in border sales, while 2Q 2020 saw NOK 28 million.
https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/de...424010896.html
At the same time, Swedish border stores lost out big. 2Q 2019 saw NOK 4.1 billion in border sales, while 2Q 2020 saw NOK 28 million.
Would you have us slice and dice things until no comparison in the world is possible; or should we slice and dice things just a little or a lot and conclude that Sweden's per capita death figures for this virus are way more discrediting of the Swedish response because Sweden should have came into this pandemic with better underlying conditions than its neighbors and yet Sweden's economy didn't make any relative gains over its neighbor despite being "open for business"?
Swedish retailers got economically hit during this pandemic even far from the Swedish borders. The pandemic situation exacerbated many trends that were already in play with Swedish and other area consumers. And Swedish shops have sort of done it to themselves.
Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 29, 2020 at 7:34 am
Aug 30, 2020, 12:55 am
#1003
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@RedChili, but the outcome is what it is. Sweden's economy suffered and more people died in Sweden. If a lockdown had positive effects on Norway, why not on Sweden?
A similar Swedish decision would never have a similar effect as Sweden doesn't have any borders with a significant shopping leakage to other countries.
I have been looking at the specifics for each neighboring country, but the fact is that Sweden didn't outperform its neighbors on net in terms of economic performance and in terms of minimizing damage on lives and health of its inhabitants.
Would you have us slice and dice things until no comparison in the world is possible; or should we slice and dice things just a little or a lot and conclude that Sweden's per capita death figures for this virus are way more discrediting of the Swedish response because Sweden should have came into this pandemic with better underlying conditions than its neighbors and yet Sweden's economy didn't make any relative gains over its neighbor despite being "open for business"?
Swedish retailers got economically hit during this pandemic even far from the Swedish borders. The pandemic situation exacerbated many trends that were already in play with Swedish and other area consumers. And Swedish shops have sort of done it to themselves.
Would you have us slice and dice things until no comparison in the world is possible; or should we slice and dice things just a little or a lot and conclude that Sweden's per capita death figures for this virus are way more discrediting of the Swedish response because Sweden should have came into this pandemic with better underlying conditions than its neighbors and yet Sweden's economy didn't make any relative gains over its neighbor despite being "open for business"?
Swedish retailers got economically hit during this pandemic even far from the Swedish borders. The pandemic situation exacerbated many trends that were already in play with Swedish and other area consumers. And Swedish shops have sort of done it to themselves.
Aug 30, 2020, 1:46 am
#1004
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Interesting to read that after the latest adjustments, residents of Norway are theoretically free to travel to the following nine countries without having any problems with entry in either the visited country nor back home in Norway nor with the travel insurance: Estonia, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Greenland, and some parts of Denmark. I say theoretically, because there are no direct flights between Norway and several of these countries, and a transit in a red zone means a quarantine back in Norway. In reality, the only flights that are available today from OSL to yellow countries are to three countries: Denmark, Lithuania, and Estonia.
Swedish residents, on the other hand, can travel freely to the following 22 countries without having any problems with entry either in the visited country nor back home in Sweden nor with the travel insurance: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Denmark, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Spain, Switzerland, and the Vatican.
If a Swedish resident is willing to purchase a separate travel insurance, he can also travel quite freely to a few countries outside of Europe, like Mexico, Brazil, Dubai, Kenya, Tanzania, and a few other countries.
Swedish residents, on the other hand, can travel freely to the following 22 countries without having any problems with entry either in the visited country nor back home in Sweden nor with the travel insurance: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Denmark, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Spain, Switzerland, and the Vatican.
If a Swedish resident is willing to purchase a separate travel insurance, he can also travel quite freely to a few countries outside of Europe, like Mexico, Brazil, Dubai, Kenya, Tanzania, and a few other countries.
Aug 30, 2020, 2:03 am
#1005
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I didn't even know our local Systembolaget was shut down forever until I was thinking about getting some cardboard boxes for packing, I guess people either shop in Malmo or DK for alcohol.