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Coronavirus in Sweden

Coronavirus in Sweden

Old Mar 28, 20, 5:18 pm
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Coronavirus in Sweden

Originally Posted by bluesaturn View Post
A serious question: How well is the Swedish PM educated to judge what his experts tell him? Apparently, the Swedish culture is to listen to this state epidemiologist who seems Teflon-proofed.
Could he not put all the other experts in place?
Your questions are righty in their existence. But some of them show also the flaws in the system.
How good is the Swedish social system to deal with unemployment? How long can you survive on Swedish benefits?
Was it necessary to take on big mortgages for homes? Is the pension system stable enough to survive this pandemic?
Other countries sit in the same boat as Sweden, but maybe their systems are more robust.
My personal opinion is that the Swedish government has handled this better than most other European governments. My impression is that no European governments have taken the economic and social issues into account when they have instituted restrictions based solely on the advice of pandemic experts. I think that they've handled this problem with tunnel vision. The governments of Norway and Denmark have done even worse by closing down the schools in spite of the fact that the pandemic experts recommended them to stay open. In other words, they have done that with no recommendation from any experts in any field whatsoever.

The Swedish social system for dealing with uneployment is probably one of the better in Europe. But there are some big holes. E.g. small business owners are usually not protected. And I don't think that the unemployment funds ("a-kassa") can handle unemployment levels of 20-30%.

Home prices in Sweden have skyrocketed the past few years. Many people have believed that there's a bubble. This bubble is probably going to explode now, and it won't be pretty.

The pension system is partly based on funds that have invested in either stocks or bonds. Those that are primarily in stocks have crashed hard.

I believe that the Swedish economy has so far been hit worst by (in order of severity): 1) Collapse in exports. 2) Fear of going out and spending money. 3) Government restrictions.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 4:16 am
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Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
My personal opinion is that the Swedish government has handled this better than most other European governments. My impression is that no European governments have taken the economic and social issues into account when they have instituted restrictions based solely on the advice of pandemic experts.
My personal opinion is that other countries handle better COVID19 in comparison to Sweden. The number of deaths per capita is higher in Sweden than in Norway, Denmark, Germany.
Unfortunately, Swedish PM listens only to Tegnell.

Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
I think that they've handled this problem with tunnel vision. The governments of Norway and Denmark have done even worse by closing down the schools in spite of the fact that the pandemic experts recommended them to stay open. In other words, they have done that with no recommendation from any experts in any field whatsoever.
Did they really handle the situation better? The number of deaths say something else.
Children are used in Sweden as carriers to deliberately distribute the virus.

Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
The Swedish social system for dealing with uneployment is probably one of the better in Europe. But there are some big holes. E.g. small business owners are usually not protected. And I don't think that the unemployment funds ("a-kassa") can handle unemployment levels of 20-30%.
I question this. Germany and France pay longer unemployment benefits than the Swedish system. You are obliged to insure yourself in Germany and France, where as it is on a voluntary basis in Sweden.
If akassa cannot handle is, it is not well prepared.

Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
Home prices in Sweden have skyrocketed the past few years. Many people have believed that there's a bubble. This bubble is probably going to explode now, and it won't be pretty.
I could not care less. Not my fault if people take on so high mortgages and hardly manage to pay them off.

Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
The pension system is partly based on funds that have invested in either stocks or bonds. Those that are primarily in stocks have crashed hard.
That is also not unexpected. Such a system is prone to suffer from a crash. You can not have it both ways. Risk-free high output.

Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
I believe that the Swedish economy has so far been hit worst by (in order of severity): 1) Collapse in exports. 2) Fear of going out and spending money. 3) Government restrictions.
Which government restrictions? Moste of them are recommendations one does not need to follow.

Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
I get the impression that you don't understand the seriousness of the conseqences of the virtual lockdown of the entire continent of Europe. The restrictions that are designed to fight covid-19 will likely cause far more dead people -- or "collateral damage," as you choose to call it -- than the virus itself. And I'm not the only one with that opinion.
Given the fact that Sweden has already more dead people per capita, I highly question the Swedish approach.
I am under the impression you value the Swedish economy more than a life. After all, rumor has it only old people die. It is not only old people that die.

Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
The lockdown of Europe is already causing massive unemployment, hunger, malnutrition, depression, pensions are going down the drain, tax money is dwindling, violent crimes, etc.
I cannot see massive unemployment, hunger, malnutrition, violent crimes. I remember GUwonder mentioned there was a day without any burglaries in Denmark. If anything, the SEK is not stable enough against the EUR.

The Swedish system has its flaws and they are surfacing now.

PS: Sweden is doing not a good job regarding testing and FHM presents calculations that will just fit to the system. The assumptions are too low.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 4:50 am
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Highupinthesky said the thing about Denmark home break-in reports dropping to zero. I mentioned that home break-ins are down due to so many people working at home, illegal drug prices rising due to the virus-related restrictions, The criminal activity has been changed by this too, some types down a lot, some types up. The market for illegal goods has also been impacted with availability and pricing and buying power not being the same as before.

I don’t see how Sweden is doing itself any great favors with trying to stick with this “herd immunity” approach that has been given up by most that tried it and had to give it up. In medicine like In much of life, it’s better to put in the hard work upfront and take the bad tasting medicine sooner than later than to end up behind the eight ball at the 11th hour.

Easter is going to be a real killer in Sweden and it won’t work to passover the numbers who die from this in Sweden.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 4:52 am
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Originally Posted by bluesaturn View Post
My personal opinion is that other countries handle better COVID19 in comparison to Sweden. The number of deaths per capita is higher in Sweden than in Norway, Denmark, Germany.
Unfortunately, Swedish PM listens only to Tegnell.
Once again, it takes about four weeks from the time of infection until the time of death. So, when you're comparing today's death toll for Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany, you're comparing the results of policies made before there were any restrictions at all in any of these four coutries.

Originally Posted by bluesaturn View Post
Children are used in Sweden as carriers to deliberately distribute the virus.
Many studies have indicated that very few children are infected or spread the virus. If you can read Swedish, see https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap...r-ny-genomgang

Originally Posted by bluesaturn View Post
I could not care less. Not my fault if people take on so high mortgages and hardly manage to pay them off.
You really don't care if people cannot pay their mortgages, people become homeless, the housing market collapses, banks go bankrupt, and people's savings go down the drain?

Originally Posted by bluesaturn View Post
Which government restrictions? Moste of them are recommendations one does not need to follow.
Correct, in Sweden most of them are recommendations, That's why I wrote the restrictions as number 3 on what has affected the Swedish economy.

Originally Posted by bluesaturn View Post
I am under the impression you value the Swedish economy more than a life.
Economy is life. Economy pays for housing, food, pensions, health care, etc. Without money, people die.

Originally Posted by bluesaturn View Post
I cannot see massive unemployment, hunger, malnutrition, violent crimes.
Look again. In Norway, unemployment soared from around 3% to around 10% in two weeks of restrictions. In Italy, there is hunger, malnutrition, and violent crimes after three weeks of restrictions. The lockdown hits the poorest and weakest first. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/va...att-handla-mat
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Old Mar 30, 20, 2:41 am
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So the 50 person caps on people coming to a venue in Sweden doesn’t apply to people in Sweden except in a very limited set of circumstances.

50+ people packed like sardines on regular public transit buses in Swedish cities this morning, with no place for new passengers to sit or even board at times ..... all due to full buses? Welcome to Sweden today.
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Old Mar 30, 20, 3:01 am
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It's been explained to me that it applies to situation where you'd need a permit to organize.
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Old Mar 30, 20, 4:49 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
So the 50 person caps on people coming to a venue in Sweden doesn’t apply to people in Sweden except in a very limited set of circumstances.

50+ people packed like sardines on regular public transit buses in Swedish cities this morning, with no place for new passengers to sit or even board at times ..... all due to full buses? Welcome to Sweden today.
What's not allowed: church services (pro-life vs economy), demonstrations, gathering for anti-government movements.
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Old Mar 30, 20, 4:50 am
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Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
It's been explained to me that it applies to situation where you'd need a permit to organize.
Yes. Another half-hearted measure amongst the half-measures in Sweden.

SATS in Sweden opened up most or all of its Swedish gym locations again and restarted with group classes .... as there was no ban against such activities and the other gyms were remaining open as usual and grabbing customers.
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Old Mar 30, 20, 4:55 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
So the 50 person caps on people coming to a venue in Sweden doesn’t apply to people in Sweden except in a very limited set of circumstances.

50+ people packed like sardines on regular public transit buses in Swedish cities this morning, with no place for new passengers to sit or even board at times ..... all due to full buses? Welcome to Sweden today.
That's what the buses are like in Malmo during peak hours.
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Old Mar 30, 20, 5:11 am
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Originally Posted by nacho View Post
That's what the buses are like in Malmo during peak hours.
And that’s how the buses were this morning from various parts of Malmo to other parts of the area. Footage from today even showed the Hyllie-Bunkeflostrand buses full like the usual peak times for going to/from work and school. And that’s a bus heading from more populated (and more dense areas to less populated (and less dense) areas.

The bus school kids are going to bring the skiIng class demographics’ virus from the schools in the better part of town to the poorer parts that are way more densely populated and where public health levels tend to be much lower than average.

A couple of hours later, it seemed like Malmo office windows showed more activity than at this time last week and the indications were that even people who avoided the offices last week were more commonly back into the offices today.
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Old Mar 30, 20, 11:06 am
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Gotland is trying prevent tourist pouring into the island by adding 500SEK credit to use in a future trip instead of going there during Easter
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Old Mar 30, 20, 11:13 am
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Funny you mention it because I know some people who are going. I've tried to explain the Norwegian prohibition on visiting your hytte but it's still lost on them.
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Old Mar 30, 20, 11:26 am
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Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
Funny you mention it because I know some people who are going. I've tried to explain the Norwegian prohibition on visiting your hytte but it's still lost on them.
It doesn't work on the people if they have decided what they want to believe and do.

They think as long as stay in their stuga nothing will happen. A lot of Danes go to their summer houses now to self-isolate away from Copenhagen, as long as they are not going out (they can't really go to places as they are all closed) then it should be fine.

Don't know if Gotland will become the second Åre: https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/cor...-oss-egoister/
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Old Mar 30, 20, 2:53 pm
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I mean, I would also have thought it was safer to leave the big city at first but it's the unwillingness to change plans I find baffling. When you're an adult you sometimes have to do some things you don't like because that's how the world works.

I feel like a grumpy old man now.
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Old Mar 30, 20, 3:22 pm
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Originally Posted by nacho View Post
Don't know if Gotland will become the second Åre: https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/cor...-oss-egoister/
Well, Stockholm has a long tradition of exporting disease to Gotland. If you look at the chlamydia statistics, new cases are heavily concentrated in Stockholm September - May, at which point they become concentrated in Visby.
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