rny321

Whatever one believes Marriott should have done with travel certificates has no relevance to what the company actually did. Perhaps you could stop focusing on what could or should have been done and try to provide useful information about what the current policy is?

RedSun

I do not want to continue and go circles. What rny321 said is very puzzling. If you want to gamble, please do it. I wish you the good luck with it.

Whatever one believes Marriott should have done with travel certificates has no relevance to what the company actually did.

skimthetrees

I am not confused. Are you? We keep trying to explain to you.

I only saw you quote one recent version of the T&C. Where are you checking the text of all the other versions you are claiming? If you could post links then we can all check with you.

The very top of the T&C you link identifies the version. The date on the T&C from your link quotes "Last Updated June 2019" which is post merger.

They are required to do what is specified in the Terms and Conditions. If their duty is not specified in the terms and conditions then they can do whatever they want, typically guided by some internal policy that not all agents are aware of which causes inconsistencies in the results of different people.

RedSun

GundamWing01

i always throw up a little bit when TPG is referenced. vast majority of the time, its Totally Poor Guidance (TPG). however, i agree that TPG has certain connections within the industry and is the ONLY reason i still skim his trash from time to time to find golden nuggets inside cow dump.

anyway, for this particular topic, the RESPONSE was the correct content. the contradiction you see is typical TPG.

since we are deep into 2019 post merger, i have called repeatedly on their Titanium line for various reasons and each time I would also ask about the restrictions for TP vs normal free night certs just to test their knowledge because HUCA always produces different results. all responses have been solid and consistent without hesitation or "let me check".

TPs are very valuable for the right person and redemption property because its covers PEAK pricing. this is NOT true for CC certs. you can clearly see the references of "categories" have been removed from free night certs. this is because they now have EXACT point values (up to XXX pts). TPs do not. they cover actual categories. the only people still referencing categories for free night certs are bloggers.

one interesting point: 50k certs can cover both standard cat 6 and an OFF-PEAK cat 7. its the only overlap.

i would like to see DPs where a TP did or did not cover peak pricing.

RedSun

Happy

Old TP Certs can be canceled and refunded with the residual value as what are shown in the Wiki.

Just 2 days ago someone has done it thru the Asia Call Center where the agents are extremely competent, AND Stick to the rules. Whoever got shot down by CSRs on the residual value refunded just has the bad luck to get both incompetent rep and his / her supervisor - is this something new, after how many DPs have proven that the knowledge level of Marriott phone reps has a HUGE variation between the excellent, the good and the worthless. (I refrain from saying bad for they are not bad persons in nature, just ignorant reps).

I also dont see any point to keep arguing on the old T&Cs because within a few more days, this is a completely moot point. Whoever still hold out on the OC, to this very late stage, I honoest dont understand what is the intention behind it because there is nothing to gain but everything to lose.

BTW, if you are so incline, and have a ton of time on hand, go back to 2018's old thread, somewhere there IS the words from the Old TP T&Cs - and that was HOW people found out the New TP T&Cs have much harsher languages when it comes to refund and residual values.

Go back in the first few months of 2018 to dig up the posts and a lot of discussions to satisfy your quest on finding out what the languages are since this seems to be a major focus of yours regardless how impractical is - Unless you are the very few still holding out the OCs till the last possible moment and still not make a decision on what to do with them.

RedSun

There is recent DP that contradicts what you said on the OC refund. You can say the OP had bad luck or the Marriott rep is incompetent. But that is current Marriott policy now. Do we believe your policy or Marriott's policy?

Below is what Marriott Customer Engagement Center clearly stated. You can choose to ignore it if you wish. But do not state that your understanding is Marriott's policy. And Marriott rep is incompetent to refund your OC.

Hotel Portion
Travel Packages expire 12 months after date of issuance. · Valid for standard room at Marriott Bonvoy™ participating hotels· Award covers one stay of seven consecutive nights· May be used as a Floater Award Important:· Gifting the Hotel Portion of a travel package is allowed at the time of booking· Award cannot be upgraded or downgraded to a different category· If Member chooses to cancel the hotel portion, they will receive 5,000 points back to their account· Award can be extended only one time

Happy

For goodness sake, this is NOT "my policy" - this is what happened when the caller got a competent rep who knew exactly what to do. Plus this is done on an OC, issued under OLD TP T&Cs which have nothing to do with your endless quoting of the current T&Cs.

How many times people have to explain to you, including the explanation about HOW the OC is exchanged to the NC - by refunding the residual value first, then taking the exact value from the account to issue the NC. The system guess what, actually refund the pts when the OC is canceled!

If you have followed the thread, you should have read about that - During the process, some of the lucky posters actually got an additional NC with the residual value amount taken from their accounts, but the OCs are not canceled.

There are at least 3 such examples if not more, 2 of them were for a Cat 1-4 for 45K pts taken from the accounts, but the OCs not canceled. 1 poster actually got a NC5 or higher issued, with the corresponding OC residual value of pts taken from the account, meanwhile the existing OC remained intact, i.e, not canceled. I forgot whether the poster decided to keep the "windfall" of a bargain price NC or not, Since these are posted in this thread, within the last 2 to 3 months, with 1 such "mishap" happened just last week, you can easily read thru them.
Such "mishaps" clearly demonstrate that the OCs have residual values far more than the 5,000 pts you keep harping about because that is for the NC of any category, but irrelevant to OCs,.

As for what Marriott policy written form is, versus how it is practiced - I am surprised until now you still have not had the grasp on the reality - that is, what Marriott wrote and what Marriott practices, are 2 very different things.

Right now, some of the more restrictive parts of the new T&Cs are not enforced, YET, despite they are written in the policy.

The most obvious is, most everyone who asked the reps were told the NC can be extended for one year - some reps even suggested the callers to wait till their NCs expire soon to call so not to waste the "valid life time". And you should know, given you are so into the T&C languages, that the NC is NOT extendable, and in theory once you attach it to a reservation, you cannot detach it, else you lose the cert. Yet, the NC can be detached Online, by the customers, and it returns to the account - pretty sure you have reported doing so several times. That is another example on what Marriott wrote, does not mean what Marriott practices, at least how the system is designed, as rny321 has pointed out clearly.

RedSun

You can explain 100 times. But show me Marriott's policy or real Marriott's internal memo or guidance on OC TP refund? Where is it? Any version? Pre Aug-2018 to the new T&C?

I can explain 100 times too. There were some old DPs. But things may have changed. You still can't explain the new DP. But can only say the new DPs are unlucky and blame it on the incompetent Marriott rep.

Flying for Fun

Does this also apply to OC certificates that are cancelled with no intention of a conversion? Inquiring minds want to know, we wait with bated breath from your all knowing perfection. Will a conversion cancel with 45K while a surrender cancel with 5K? Please answer with direct support from Marriott and not anecdotal data points. Please also keep in mind, you have called me a liar before when you couldn't refute! I am not prepared to do the same. If you can't answer with verifiable documents, admit it. For "goodness sakes," this pussyfooting around gets tiring.

Such "mishaps" demonstrate the Marriott reps were incompetent, absolutely nothing more. To extrapolate anything from it in your support is insidious.

James

Counsellor

James, you don't seem to realize that Happy (and a few others) are not speaking for Marriott. They are NOT making policy, either. What they have been trying to do, is to gather the experiences others and pass it along to others who are also wondering what Marriott policy -- as applied -- actually is.

Instead of picking at them, you and RedSun might be thankful for the time and energy they've given to help us. If you can't at least be appreciative or contribute to actual data points, perhaps it would be best for all if you refrained from sharpshooting and snide comments.

Flying for Fun

Yada, Yada! I think you should read the last few posts again. @Happy is only using other's data points to establish what is believed to be Marriotts policy. Happy is most certainly speaking for Marriott. You don't seem to get that. Passing along other's datapoints is one thing, deriving what Marriotts Policy is from it and passing that along is quite another. That is where I have issue. Suggesting a new data point that doesn't quite fit the others and undermines the policy perceived by those other datapoints, is the result of an incompetent Marriott Rep, is asinine. Did @Happy actually make any inquiries with Marriott to see if policy has recently changed before calling the rep incompetent or was it pure conjecture as the merry go round makes another rotation "ad nauseam?" You are speaking on behalf of @Happy so I anticipate you should know.

Why would I be thankful to someone who spends far too much time contributing "speculation" based on datapoints that only fit their "beliefs?" How is discounting a datapoint that doesn't support one's view helpful to anyone? Unless it is suppoted with verifiable documentation, it is just conjecture. I don't see the need for some to continually rehash "my opinion" is the right one! A little research goes a long way in reducing long winded, "Marriotts policy is "this" based on data points that support my opinion, replies that are void of any substance.

If I am thankful for anything it would be that all remaining outstanding OC certificates will be out of the system this week. This should stifle the ongoing saga and those that "gamed" won't be complaining anymore that it didn't go their way. For those that gamed and got more than they deserved and those that compiled the wiki and counselled others to get outsourced value (technically accessories to fraud), I hope you are Happy with your deception.

I am also amused that posts that don't coincide with others opinions are asked not to contribute. If you don't like my opinions, feel free to move on. To chastise me, as a third party is pointless. I didn't see you commenting on conversion versus surrender values. I am no longer invested so I don't care to research it. It was offered as something someone else may want to explore.

Since you addressed me directly, I will respond with my opinions, it's your choice to ignore them or comment again, but your opinion won't change mine. It is also interesting that @Happy no longer replies to my directed posts.

I am done with this topic unless someone cares to open another can of worms. Enjoy the merry go round while the last of the OCs dwindle to extinction this week. I will thank God for that.

James

skimthetrees

Once the OC's have played out it should be much easier but people will still have questions about NC's. Hopefully those questions will not evoke such controversy. There is a much more limited set of problems and thus solutions for NC's and pretty much all of those the answers are already contained in this thread.

What we encounter frequently are folks who either:

1. Do not read the thread (and admittedly the thread is long).
2. Do not read even the short wiki which has most of the wisdom of the thread collected in one spot.
3. Are insecure regarding the multiple experiences related in the thread and want confirmation ("any recent experiences", even if there are recent experiences).
4. Disagree with Marriott's terms, policy, or implementation, and want to vent or argue with others about it.

Once the Old TP certs have all expired it may help to create a new thread dealing with only NC package issues. If we create a good wiki for the new thread that should cut down on the noise of OC arguments.

RedSun

I just do not want to quote anyone any more and go circle again and again. The last day of OC TP existence is almost here. OC TPs will be just a piece of the travel history.

My position has always been, Marriott has never stated the OC TP can be refunded at its TP portion of the points. Or OC can be upgraded and downgraded. There are cases of OC outright cancellations and some upgrades and downgrades, often the results of HUCA practices. I agree that Marriott has not been consistent with its TPs and this caused a lot of confusions. Some Marriott reps are poorly trained and they sometimes make mistakes and require supervisor assistance. But in general, Marriott reps have been friendly and have made a lot of concessions and exceptions, trying to please the members and win the travel business.

But the concessions, exceptions and member friendly cases do not make the cases to be the new policy. We should all take precautions with online blogs and discussions. Those TPs are still valuable and we all want to maximize the value. But there are also a lot of risks if we believe we can continue to bend Marriott reps' arms and continue to receive concessions and exceptions. I believe the HUCA is a strategy to exploit Marriott member friendly weakness. Marriott may have tighten its policy and follow its T&C more closely, with the most recent DPs.

I'm grateful for all the advice from this forum and from the online bloggers. But I also want to digest them with a bag of caution. Official policy (T&C) is always the baseline. Take online advice at your own risk.