rmunson1

This post could stand to have a wiki. I have had a recent experience with SMGC (sad, but a happy ending). I had a BB load fail (debit denied using SMGC), but the money was gone from the SMGC. Today, 2 months and 5 days later, the money has been restored. Where was it? I still don't know, but I lost nothing other than some of my time.

In the process, I became quite familiar with someone at SMGC customer service and learned a lot in the process. The following are facts as intended by corporate policy:
SMGC knows a great deal about MS, understand it, are not fighting it, they are enabling it.
SMGC @ $500 with $3.95 fee are 'personal' GC and can be used for MS.
SMGC @ $1000 with reduced fees are 'corporate' and cannot be used for MS (YMMV, but they will shut you down (as corporate/convert you to personal) if/when they find out).
SMGC cannot be bought with AGC (YMMV).

She told me there is so much misinformation on this forum that it might be worthwhile to advise readers what is reality. If you have a different reality, it may not be that way for long.

redtop43

My information completely corroborates the previous post.

Simon has a very good understanding of what is going on and chooses to manage it, rather than ignore it and let it run wild, or shut it down.

MileageGoblin

LOL. So you are saying a Simon phone CSR is reading FT? That's hilarious. Especially your part about misinformation as there hasn't been any since the jerks in Sept/Oct tried to scare everyone away saying BH was going to shut this down. Many, myself included, have posted for months on how SM doesn't care about MS. You didn't really add anything.

Didn't ask for a specific name. Just where it came from which you answered by saying it was from corporate. Thanks.

nwflyboy

Anyone know what level of transaction details that Simon Mall's GCs report to the credit card companies?

It's good to know that Simon knows about the MS use of their GCs and is entirely cool with it. OTOH, Chase, Amex, Citi and the other card issuers probably would not look so favorably on it. Sure, the credit card companies can put 2+2 together if they bother to think about it (or if you give them enough of a reason to think about it), but if they're getting detailed transaction info specifically showing gift card sales I'd guess they would be more inclined to take adverse action than if all they see is a generic "purchase" at Simon Mall - in that case, theres a bit more cover for those transactions.

Anyone know what level of data they see?
(I once had the link to the online tool for determining this but can't seem to find it - anyone got that?).

Thanks.

BeyondtheWrap

I always google "visa supplier locator" when I need it:
https://www.visa.com/supplierlocator/search/index.jsp

MSerforfun

I don't get how this works! Am I missing something or is everyone earning 1 to 2% out of this method?

SammySpade

Pretty much, unless I'm missing something too. I don't really go out of my way to do it, but if I'm already driving by my local simon on the way to wallyworld, its nothing to stop in and buy $5k then liquidate with Kate. Not super profitable with A+ but a quick and easy supplement to the bottom line. Easy way to meet min spends also if you're not able to otherwise buy GCs with amex gc.

littlewinglet

It would be great to find out why they're against AMEX GCs. The fees are the same as using an amex CC.

Happy

Much harder to trace it back to an individual?

It is all about compliance.

The primary reason why SGC is friendly to MS is they have all the records of the CCs that are 100% traceable as to who owns the CCs, and where the SGCs are disposed. This way they have all the needed data for regulation compliance work.

They would not be able to know the original source of the AGC - at least not as easily as with CC. Can be done but much more works involved - therefore it jumps up multiple folds of the cost of compliance. AGC (or any cash-equivalent GCs) also are often used to launder money precisely because they are non-traceable.

littlewinglet

Anyone who was determined to commit fraud this way could custom stamp their own plastic cards that look like legit AMEX credit cards, while the strip was coded from the GC. I'm sure no one at SM really thought that far ahead. Just like grocery stores that ban GC for MO, they just have knee jerk reaction to unfounded fear and no thought process. They record the personal info from driver license so who cares where the GCs come from? They have at least on person on the hook in case law enforcement needs to find them.

Alcibiades

Then why does the cashier verify that the last 4 digits on the receipt match the last 4 digits on the plastic card that was just swiped ?

BeyondtheWrap

As I understand it, yes. Buying GCs is one of the few MS methods that has virtually no limit (as opposed to, say, RB with a $5k/mo limit). So even if you're only making 1%, you can make as much total profit as you want by increasing your volume enough. For example, the guy who buys $10k a day at SM is making $100 a day in profit. Every day. (Actually, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure the limit is $10k/day.)

Buying VGCs at a grocery store is fine to get your category bonuses, but those all have specific limits (e.g. $1500 per quarter), so eventually you have to purchase with non-category CCs if you want to keep going. Then SM becomes the better choice due to the lower VGC fee than what they have at grocery stores.

Happy

Your government. The laws require the merchants engage in facilitating the process know where the payment tenders coming from and reported to the government via regular reporting requirements as well as needs arise.

You may want to spend a wee bit of time to google in the Compliance Requirements... Things are not as simple as in your eyes.

All these compliance work require a lot more man hours and of course costs should frauds happen as you said, and that means much more extra costs to the merchants who are not here to facilitate your MS activities. They are for profit business. It is only sensible they choose to do business in a more prudent way to eliminate as much as the need to dealing with crooks. If this interferes with your MS activities, that is just too bad. Go find another merchant(s) that would accommodate you. Problem solved.

littlewinglet

I know they're just following rules, I was merely pointing out the futility and uselessness of how they're doing it. Anyway, there's always CVS. They never check name on ID against payment cards.

Happy

Not in my area. All CVS stores here check payment cards against DL, even at the most friendly stores. Once a manager told me, (and tilted his head upward...) "We have to check it even though we know you are our regular customer, because we are constantly being watched." He no doubt referred to the CCTV that monitoring the payment counter. I dont mind that a bit. They have their jobs to do (and to keep). Of course it all depends on which part of the country you are in. Your stores might very well be completely lax about it.