New Amanresorts, GHM & Ahn Luh Development (2014 Edition)
May 3, 2014, 3:53 am
#121
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Admittedly, I am not a native English speaker, but to the best of my knowledge the term "group" is not limited to online.
I am hinting at peer groups such as business clubs, golf clubs, boardroom colleagues, co-investors, regular social festivities (F1 races, charity balls, Oscars parties, investor conferences, New Year in St. Moritz, ...) Opinions within those groups have a lot of relevance, even if below the "public" level.
While the opinions on FT luxury are relevant to some (including myself who likes to get hotel industry info here from time to time), the share of voice of this forum is so negligible that none of these big players would ever, in his right mind, react to anything mentioned about him/her in this forum.
Omar, Johan, Vladimir, Richard B,, please step forward and correct me if I'm wrong. (and get a slap from your PR manager later
)
I am a fan of some on this forum, but things need to be put in perspective.
What puts me off, is some "virtual nobodies" criticising the "real life big guys" as "arrogant" (the word itself means to stick out!), "nouveau riche" (as if that wouldn't be more meritable than just inheriting) or "not getting it" or "Russian" or ".........s" or whatever other term I learned on FT. Almost seems like a language therapy group of the "anonymics anoymous".
If one of the Amanjunkies here is so much better suited than Eliasch/Doronin to run it, go and buy Aman from them ! I am optimistic about them getting the job done. ^
I am hinting at peer groups such as business clubs, golf clubs, boardroom colleagues, co-investors, regular social festivities (F1 races, charity balls, Oscars parties, investor conferences, New Year in St. Moritz, ...) Opinions within those groups have a lot of relevance, even if below the "public" level.
While the opinions on FT luxury are relevant to some (including myself who likes to get hotel industry info here from time to time), the share of voice of this forum is so negligible that none of these big players would ever, in his right mind, react to anything mentioned about him/her in this forum.
Omar, Johan, Vladimir, Richard B,, please step forward and correct me if I'm wrong. (and get a slap from your PR manager later
)I am a fan of some on this forum, but things need to be put in perspective.
What puts me off, is some "virtual nobodies" criticising the "real life big guys" as "arrogant" (the word itself means to stick out!), "nouveau riche" (as if that wouldn't be more meritable than just inheriting) or "not getting it" or "Russian" or ".........s" or whatever other term I learned on FT. Almost seems like a language therapy group of the "anonymics anoymous".
If one of the Amanjunkies here is so much better suited than Eliasch/Doronin to run it, go and buy Aman from them ! I am optimistic about them getting the job done. ^
Last edited by LuxuryRogue; May 3, 2014 at 3:58 am Reason: how funny: the term douche - bag above was auto-deleted :-)
May 3, 2014, 4:36 am
#122
formerly known as deathscar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hong Kong
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Plenty of the group do nowadays. I've seen the internet using habits of three of the names mentioned in this thread and they and their relatives do. While they don't commonly go on forums to figure out their travel plans, they do browse the internet a lot and plenty are OCD about mentions involving them.
While travel forums are not very important to the group it doesn't change a thing. Plenty of Aman customers only have accumulated wealth of under 10 million (US) dollars.
While travel forums are not very important to the group it doesn't change a thing. Plenty of Aman customers only have accumulated wealth of under 10 million (US) dollars.
I was specifically referencing people who own villas at Aman resorts or their own private villas or visit certain Amans every other month. They do not know of FT.
May 3, 2014, 6:49 am
#123
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,439
His point was that they don't go on forums. There is something to that. I know of a few friends whose families are filthy rich (and they're old money, not nouveau riche). They're Amanjunkies and have never been on this forum (and I mean the friends who are around my age, not their families - who are even less likely to have been on here).
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19224789-post44.html
That's actually how most of the really wealthy travel anyway - not like the rest of us hoi polloi who have to read about luxury hotels here.
May 3, 2014, 6:56 am
#124
formerly known as deathscar
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Bonnie Gokson is actually very active, netwise, compared to others. She's always posting on Instagram and also tweets a bit.
The others I'm referring to aren't averse to being active on the internet, but it'll be on their private Facebook accessible only to friends - rather than a public Twitter/Instagram. Certainly would not post or visit any 'public' spaces.
The others I'm referring to aren't averse to being active on the internet, but it'll be on their private Facebook accessible only to friends - rather than a public Twitter/Instagram. Certainly would not post or visit any 'public' spaces.
May 3, 2014, 6:59 am
#125
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Of course - it's clear from this forum that there are plenty who visit Aman who do so because they save up for a trip like this - and there is clearly a size able proportion of those.
I was specifically referencing people who own villas at Aman resorts or their own private villas or visit certain Amans every other month. They do not know of FT.
I was specifically referencing people who own villas at Aman resorts or their own private villas or visit certain Amans every other month. They do not know of FT.
May 3, 2014, 7:04 am
#126
formerly known as deathscar
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Posts: 2,096
May 3, 2014, 7:26 am
#127
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I know some owners and they fly commercially from time to time and have had issues with airlines too.
May 3, 2014, 7:49 am
#128
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The reason why I have built up my case here is that I believe it is indeed possible to attract more of the (U)HNWI to FT luxury. However, it would be necessary to broaden the current very narrow "consensus" of what is "luxury by the standards of this forum":
* embrace the big players (such as prominent hotel investors) instead of bashing them
* open up to Russians, Arabs and Indians instead of following a misguided and outdated "Western" ethnocentricism
* disallow other socially narrow terms like "nouveau riche" or "d-bags"
* allow exotic and remote destinations, even if the best local hotels are slightly less polished (especially reg. service). Somewhere along the lines of pausanias' interests.
* avoid statements like "There is no luxury in Bahrain" when there is a wonderful Ritz-Carlton, that is luxurious enough for many super rich
* allow stories about movers and shakers at or behind hotels, instead of saying "this is not HELLO magazine here"
* promote know-how that describes where to stay - or where the stars stay - at mega events like F1 races or the Oscars or the Biennale or Art Basel
* promote threads that describe alternative hotel "collecting" trips, like the FS Jet or car delivery tours ex-Germany or island hopping by yacht to Caribbean hotels - even if inevitably not every hotel will be a FS or Aman
* avoid the blind following of vuittons' handwriting and don't estrange someone like andrewharper or other industry opinion leaders
...
* embrace the big players (such as prominent hotel investors) instead of bashing them
* open up to Russians, Arabs and Indians instead of following a misguided and outdated "Western" ethnocentricism
* disallow other socially narrow terms like "nouveau riche" or "d-bags"
* allow exotic and remote destinations, even if the best local hotels are slightly less polished (especially reg. service). Somewhere along the lines of pausanias' interests.
* avoid statements like "There is no luxury in Bahrain" when there is a wonderful Ritz-Carlton, that is luxurious enough for many super rich
* allow stories about movers and shakers at or behind hotels, instead of saying "this is not HELLO magazine here"
* promote know-how that describes where to stay - or where the stars stay - at mega events like F1 races or the Oscars or the Biennale or Art Basel
* promote threads that describe alternative hotel "collecting" trips, like the FS Jet or car delivery tours ex-Germany or island hopping by yacht to Caribbean hotels - even if inevitably not every hotel will be a FS or Aman
* avoid the blind following of vuittons' handwriting and don't estrange someone like andrewharper or other industry opinion leaders
...
May 3, 2014, 8:46 am
#129
Join Date: Feb 2005
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,068
I am not really interested in how rich the other guests at Amanresorts are or whether or not they are active online. The point for me is that Amanresorts mostly seem to attract an understated crowd looking to relax and escape their busy lives. These are not places to show off and flash the cash. My concern with the recent news is that this may change.
May 3, 2014, 8:52 am
#130
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Posts: 9,341
Admittedly, I am not a native English speaker, but to the best of my knowledge the term "group" is not limited to online.
I am hinting at peer groups such as business clubs, golf clubs, boardroom colleagues, co-investors, regular social festivities (F1 races, charity balls, Oscars parties, investor conferences, New Year in St. Moritz, ...) Opinions within those groups have a lot of relevance, even if below the "public" level.
I am hinting at peer groups such as business clubs, golf clubs, boardroom colleagues, co-investors, regular social festivities (F1 races, charity balls, Oscars parties, investor conferences, New Year in St. Moritz, ...) Opinions within those groups have a lot of relevance, even if below the "public" level.
The reason why I have built up my case here is that I believe it is indeed possible to attract more of the (U)HNWI to FT luxury. However, it would be necessary to broaden the current very narrow "consensus" of what is "luxury by the standards of this forum":
Last edited by 5khours; May 3, 2014 at 9:15 am
May 3, 2014, 9:14 am
#131
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: La Jolla, California
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold, SWA CP
Posts: 1,124
I am not really interested in how rich the other guests at Amanresorts are or whether or not they are active online. The point for me is that Amanresorts mostly seem to attract an understated crowd looking to relax and escape their busy lives. These are not places to show off and flash the cash. My concern with the recent news is that this may change.
But back to the subject. AZ is a revered figure here. He is a person that will be in the history books of the hotel industry when that history gets written. Aman had no trouble with its brand image. Due to debt, the business was broken. So a rich Russian donated $300M to fire AZ, fire the dead wood, and bring in somebody to fix the brand. Mark me down as a skeptic. And please convince me that the Aman resorts aren't going to turn into Vlady's personal playgrouds.
Last edited by mike_la_jolla; May 3, 2014 at 11:26 am
May 3, 2014, 9:18 am
#132
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC 50k 1MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,402
The reason why I have built up my case here is that I believe it is indeed possible to attract more of the (U)HNWI to FT luxury. However, it would be necessary to broaden the current very narrow "consensus" of what is "luxury by the standards of this forum":
* embrace the big players (such as prominent hotel investors) instead of bashing them
* open up to Russians, Arabs and Indians instead of following a misguided and outdated "Western" ethnocentricism
* disallow other socially narrow terms like "nouveau riche" or "d-bags"
* allow exotic and remote destinations, even if the best local hotels are slightly less polished (especially reg. service). Somewhere along the lines of pausanias' interests.
* avoid statements like "There is no luxury in Bahrain" when there is a wonderful Ritz-Carlton, that is luxurious enough for many super rich
* allow stories about movers and shakers at or behind hotels, instead of saying "this is not HELLO magazine here"
* promote know-how that describes where to stay - or where the stars stay - at mega events like F1 races or the Oscars or the Biennale or Art Basel
* promote threads that describe alternative hotel "collecting" trips, like the FS Jet or car delivery tours ex-Germany or island hopping by yacht to Caribbean hotels - even if inevitably not every hotel will be a FS or Aman
* avoid the blind following of vuittons' handwriting and don't estrange someone like andrewharper or other industry opinion leaders
...
* embrace the big players (such as prominent hotel investors) instead of bashing them
* open up to Russians, Arabs and Indians instead of following a misguided and outdated "Western" ethnocentricism
* disallow other socially narrow terms like "nouveau riche" or "d-bags"
* allow exotic and remote destinations, even if the best local hotels are slightly less polished (especially reg. service). Somewhere along the lines of pausanias' interests.
* avoid statements like "There is no luxury in Bahrain" when there is a wonderful Ritz-Carlton, that is luxurious enough for many super rich
* allow stories about movers and shakers at or behind hotels, instead of saying "this is not HELLO magazine here"
* promote know-how that describes where to stay - or where the stars stay - at mega events like F1 races or the Oscars or the Biennale or Art Basel
* promote threads that describe alternative hotel "collecting" trips, like the FS Jet or car delivery tours ex-Germany or island hopping by yacht to Caribbean hotels - even if inevitably not every hotel will be a FS or Aman
* avoid the blind following of vuittons' handwriting and don't estrange someone like andrewharper or other industry opinion leaders
...
And I am agree for many reasons, but the two most prominent are: a) why travel if it isnt for cultural awareness and appreciation (althought I don't think the bias is as bad as you identify); and b) there needs to be more than Aman, particularly if the fears of some here are realized.
May 3, 2014, 9:28 am
#133
Join Date: Dec 2006
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I agree with you. That's mostly where information comes from, but one would normally not say "there is much more knowledgeable groups out there." Just that people get information word of mouth or from other people in their social or professional circles. I think that's why people who read your post we're confused. Also, as I said I wouldn't describe that source as "much more knowledgeable." I'd say this forum is probably the only place where you can get really comprehensive up to date info on Aman and similar resorts.
Anyone is free to post here. I don't think most people here care whether a poster is or is not an HNWI, a star, or a Russian. For me anyway though, one of the big attractions of the Aman resorts is the low key very personal service and the avoidance of ostentation and glitz. I don't think it's so surprising that people with similar tastes tend to congregate here on this forum and that they eschew anything that is not consistent with those tastes.
Anyone is free to post here. I don't think most people here care whether a poster is or is not an HNWI, a star, or a Russian. For me anyway though, one of the big attractions of the Aman resorts is the low key very personal service and the avoidance of ostentation and glitz. I don't think it's so surprising that people with similar tastes tend to congregate here on this forum and that they eschew anything that is not consistent with those tastes.
That's was pretty my point. Then this thread turned into a snot throwing contest: "The rich don't pay attention to this quaint Internet thing. That's for teenagers and the hoi polloi". This attitude is interesting in that all the filthy rich people I know are the ones that created the Internet.
But back to the subject. AZ is a revered figure here. He is a person that will be in the history books of the hotel industry when that history gets written. Aman had no trouble with its brand image. Due to debt, the business was broken. So a rich Russian donated $300M to fire AZ, fire the dead wood, and bring in somebody to fix the brand. Mark me down as a skeptic. And please convince me that the Aman resorts aren't going to turn into Vlady's personal playgrouds.
But back to the subject. AZ is a revered figure here. He is a person that will be in the history books of the hotel industry when that history gets written. Aman had no trouble with its brand image. Due to debt, the business was broken. So a rich Russian donated $300M to fire AZ, fire the dead wood, and bring in somebody to fix the brand. Mark me down as a skeptic. And please convince me that the Aman resorts aren't going to turn into Vlady's personal playgrouds.
Appreciate " the low key very personal service and the avoidance of ostentation and glitz " from my stays since early Aman days . Some assurance that this continues will be welcome !
Some of us have been to e.g. 3 Amans so far for the year & have few more stays scheduled , either repeats or at different ones , so we shall see ..
Last edited by FlyerEC; May 3, 2014 at 3:28 pm Reason: Add info
May 3, 2014, 9:32 am
#134
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: La Jolla, California
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold, SWA CP
Posts: 1,124
What puts me off, is some "virtual nobodies" criticising the "real life big guys" as "arrogant" (the word itself means to stick out!), "nouveau riche" (as if that wouldn't be more meritable than just inheriting) or "not getting it" or "Russian" or ".........s" or whatever other term I learned on FT. Almost seems like a language therapy group of the "anonymics anoymous".
Are you aware of how russian oligarchs are portrayed in the USA? Kiss my giraffe
PS - The link is to something called 'youtube'. It is one of those quaint Internet things.
May 3, 2014, 11:00 am
#135
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Here, there … you know how it goes.
Posts: 1,518
This thread is hilarious -- such melodramatic angst.
We are only discussing hotels; no one's life is being significantly changed/altered here, so perhaps take a deep breath and relax?
I'm all for anyone/everyone posting here, and like some of LuxuryRogue's suggestions.
This is a knowledgeable board, but many times it turns into an Aman echo chamber.
We are only discussing hotels; no one's life is being significantly changed/altered here, so perhaps take a deep breath and relax?
I'm all for anyone/everyone posting here, and like some of LuxuryRogue's suggestions.
This is a knowledgeable board, but many times it turns into an Aman echo chamber.