oliver2002

Head of BuPo FRA in a faz interview:

https://m.faz.net/aktuell/rhein-main...-16436879.html

hugolover

Load of nonsense. Typical Leftist to drag out political issues in the public sphere.

mikkelhk

My wife and I are flying BLL-VIE-BLL connecting in FRA on Friday, November 8 (LH839 -> LH1242) and on Sunday, November 10 (LH1239 -> LH840). I reckon those might be crowded hours (?), Friday and Sunday around 4pm, but we are traveling intra-European as EU citizens with only carry-on luggage. The outbound connection time is 75 minutes, and 80 minutes inbound. Is there any way we will be able to reach these connections, based on the current situation in FRA? And do we still have to clear security airside on those flights?

8420PR

You won't need to clear security in FRA for the connection. I would be quite confident about this connection.

mikkelhk

Thanks a lot, that makes me more relaxed.

behuman

Happily no security to clear in FRA arriving "clean" at A. BUT: arriving at A bus gate escalator not working (had to take the stairs), one of the two lifts to the tunnel not working (huge queue, took the stairs), in the tunnel one people mover not working..... I am fit and it was a good exercise, but how about the elderly or disabled ?

How the country making the best cars and having a perfect airline can have such a third world airport ? It is an appalling poorly designed labyrinth without any consistency and overzealous officials. Give me any South American airport instead.

IMHO FRA is a critical risk factor for LH, they may move away to MUC.

And regarding the security checkpoint question: MXP (a brillant airport) during those difficut month they took over from LIN perfectly managed fast track by opening more "regular" lines to avoid holding up their elite customers. Never waited more than 2 minutes.

fransknorge

I had two days ago a better security experience at the low cost terminal of TLV than I ever did at FRA. A colleague and I are flying to TXL post work this week and I consider changing the entire trip purely because of the current situation.

ecc

I feel ya. FRA is a shitshow and German/European/North American airport security is mostly security theater with poor threat models and application of said models
(All of the following information is public and has been posted on various media over the years)



Like it or not, TLV and other Israeli airport security uses a model and scoring system that's at least partially based on your person (including ethnic) background to determine your threat level. Then you are checked accordingly at the security inspection. The security folks, especially the pre-check in interviewers, are constantly looking for signs in your body language to see if you are nervous or lying.
Israeli airport security doesn't have a limitation on liquids and gels afaik, nor do they do routine millimeter wave scans, at least in my experience.

Security also begins before the airport - when you buy a ticket to/from TLV, your info goes through a background check. When you drive to the airport, there's a checkpoint a few km from the terminals.
Then a security interview at the terminal.then you have a post check in security inspection (at least at terminal 3)

The system works very, very smoothly for most people, both Israelis and tourists, depending on your background. Plus they don't fondle people's groins as a matter of course or expose them to more radiation for no goddamn reason .

I wish FRA and other European/North American systems were designed at least somewhat like this instead of a stupid security theater that does exactly nothing to counter the threats - but I'm sure the racial component would be illegal in most countries. You could still build a slightly less tight model with some more false positives without it.

Viennafly

I think a lot of things that the guy is saying in the interview is true, but it's hardly an excuse for the unacceptable situation at the security checkpoints in A/Z. if I recall correctly, after the massive waiting times, delays and cancellations during last summer, German politics brought all stakeholders (Federal and state ministries of transportation, airlines, Fraport and other German airport operators, Federal police) to one table and came up with a list of actions. Those included increased number of spare aircrafts, spare crews, additional personnel to buffer flight delays and cancellations, and on the security side, the airport operators agreed to build additional security checking lines and hire more personal, which also should be better trained. As part of these actions, Fraport has built the Annex building with additional security lines for the pier A/Z, including novel screening machines. As one of the great innovations, which was prominently featured in several German newspapers and on TV, was the new and bigger white plastic tray charging station in front of every checkpoint, where three persons at once can load their items to the scanner. (Not such as new innovations though, as in place for years at UK airports, AMS etc.). The whole point was to decrease the screening time per person and thereby the waiting time. I wonder why this has not paid off. Does it still need more time to be implemented and should we all be more patient? Is it really a shortage of personnel?

fransknorge

Here is my opinion for it not working:
- Queuing system inadequate, the door leading to the annex is a bottleneck
- New tray station poorly designed: taking the tray is not as good as LHR or AMS because the hole is not wide enough
- Lack of staff
- Staff working slowly
- Not enough lanes in the annex

corporate-wage-slave

Just a data point for Schengen A to Non Schengen B. I got the Lufthansa email advising of longer wait times at security. "For this reason we would like to ask you to allow sufficient time before your planned departure."

I was actually on OSL-FRA-MAN, so just a Schengen emigration passport check (using the machines). No security check except at Oslo. Arriving A16 then departing from B23, so that's right by the tunnel between A and B. Gate to gate it took 11 minutes (ok, 10 minutes 53 seconds) without rushing. So it's not all doom and gloom.

thbe

I have two points, who both increase the waiting time at the security checkpoints.

First are more or less usual problems. Not enough space, not enough staff, bad organisation, bad processes, systems don‘t work properly etc. I‘ve experienced and still experience them at airports all over the world. They are not on purpose from my point of view. BuPo and Fraport have to fix them. As fast as possible.

The other point is much more embarrassing for me (as FRA is my home base and Germany is my home country). That point is about the behaviour of some staff members at the security checks. I‘ve witnessed totally unacceptable and inappropriate behaviour and actions, which also results in a massive slowdown. From my point of view they do that on purpose. I‘ve never experienced that at FRA for many years before. But now they seem to happen often.

ecc

It is my experience with German authorities that there's inappropriate behavior often, but I mostly interact with German authorities as little as possible - mostly at the airport and at embassies. I've had German passport control and German airport security try and shame me (literally had a border officer say that it is shameful that I don't speak German) for not speaking German, even though I am a German citizen. I would most certainly speak German, would my great grandmother not have had to leave in the early 1930s, and my other side of the family suffered much worse fates.
And usually, when this is mentioned it either leads to an end of the discussion, or a blank stare (which leads to a follow up of "look at the place of issue" which is the embassy in Tel Aviv which ends the discussion). So I've rarely encountered professional behavior, if that contributes a data point.

You'd think representatives of the German government would know better than that. After all, the basic law does state that victims of Nazi persecution can get the citizenship back - as well as their decedents. Not only that but the German government has been expanding on the basic law and encouraging people to take up this right. And no, we don't all speak German - because we had to leave and so, learned other languages we could actually use.

Mind you I can use the automated gates, and that solves the harrassment, but I much prefer to go to a human because god knows what they do with the facial recognition data.

exbayern

I've noted several times the difference between FRA and MUC T2 staff, and between FRA A and B. (A is not great but generally better than B)

It's sad to see the downward shift at FRA and I too am embarrassed about some of what I see. There are still some nice female screeners at FRA A (usually the ones like me ie middle aged ordinary German women, perhaps because they see me in themselves and have some empathy for my situation) The few times I have had encounters with the police at FRA at the screening checkpoint they are professional and kind and understanding. (Sad though that I have had to even speak with them simply due to my physical situation)

schrodingerdog

I went through MXP for the first time last week. Was extremely surprised and agree 100% that is a brilliant airport. Not only that, is the only airport where the shops were not annoying me. They were there, in case you want to visit them, but they were not in the middle (except a small section of the duty free). And the best price / quality food I found in Europe.

What really surprise me of FRA is that they know how to fix it very easily. Just copy what MUC does. Is easy, is simple, it works; not rocket science.