Jet and the Star Alliance. Will they / Won't they?
Aug 17, 2012, 3:16 am
#121
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Well, only if you have a large premium captive audience. EK earns 80% of their profits in economy, there is a lot of money to be made there if they get the westbound traffic right with the BRU hub and direct service to secondary cities in India.
Aug 17, 2012, 8:54 am
#122
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Now that Jet are on a one way road which ends with Star Membership and as Jet think they are as good as SQ.....here is my wish list of improvements:
1) Better ground facilities at BOM and DEL. A premium check in area combined with a dedicated lounge facility matching the standards of SQ and LH. I'm sorry but a personal escort and the use of the LH lounge does not cut the mustard with me.
2) Better reward seat availability otherwise anyone with a half decent brain cell will switch to Miles and More or United's Mileage Plus.
3) Improvement onboard with an updated IFE, Catering (improvement on the western side). Jet are stagnating.
4) Improvements in the domestic product. Kill of Jet Konnect now that you have the elusive star feed.
5) Genuine BOM or DEL hub. Where domestic flights can feed international flights within a 2-3 hr window and vice versa.
6) A few new routes to places like Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing, Zurich, Frankfurt, Paris, Addis Ababa etc etc.
1) Better ground facilities at BOM and DEL. A premium check in area combined with a dedicated lounge facility matching the standards of SQ and LH. I'm sorry but a personal escort and the use of the LH lounge does not cut the mustard with me.
2) Better reward seat availability otherwise anyone with a half decent brain cell will switch to Miles and More or United's Mileage Plus.
3) Improvement onboard with an updated IFE, Catering (improvement on the western side). Jet are stagnating.
4) Improvements in the domestic product. Kill of Jet Konnect now that you have the elusive star feed.
5) Genuine BOM or DEL hub. Where domestic flights can feed international flights within a 2-3 hr window and vice versa.
6) A few new routes to places like Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing, Zurich, Frankfurt, Paris, Addis Ababa etc etc.
The 5th wish is an example. A vast majority of EU and NA flights still arrive and depart at ungodly hours while Indian traffic is asleep. Why should an international pax arriving at midnight have to wait until 6:00 a.m. to make a connection? Why has it not occurred to those who manage/run the airline. Other international airlines arrive in and depart when India sleeps, you (whether AI or Jet) do the same. You can't be better by doing what others do. Hence my comments here, that in the long run, Jet is not likely to be that different from AI.
Aug 17, 2012, 11:10 am
#123
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That is probably about 10% of its international capacity which is incredibly poor considering that they are paying over the top fuel costs for half their flights (naturally as they all begin and end in India).
They failed to grasp the premium market a few years ago. They have finally revamped their B77W capacity but instead of putting in more J and possibly having a Y+ product, they go and stick in an extra 30 Y seats. All they are doing is diluting their yields by adding more southall travel cheap as chips tickets.
They will find that they need to sell even more premium tickets to compensate for the high loads/low yields down the back. I can say with great confidence that no Indian or Indian origin pax travelling on Jet Airways economy pays more than the highest of the 3 lowest fare buckets...T, N, V class (whatever the 3 lowest are).
By adding more backpack groups and trying to feed DAC, KTM, BKK etc etc they are not exactly making any extra revenue. E.g LHR-BOM returns cost about £500 whereas LHR-BOM-BKK return costs £550. So all Jet are getting is an extra £50 for another 6 hours of flying.
Bonkers! Premium fares are where the money is. Their premium to Economy ratio is too low!
They failed to grasp the premium market a few years ago. They have finally revamped their B77W capacity but instead of putting in more J and possibly having a Y+ product, they go and stick in an extra 30 Y seats. All they are doing is diluting their yields by adding more southall travel cheap as chips tickets.
They will find that they need to sell even more premium tickets to compensate for the high loads/low yields down the back. I can say with great confidence that no Indian or Indian origin pax travelling on Jet Airways economy pays more than the highest of the 3 lowest fare buckets...T, N, V class (whatever the 3 lowest are).
By adding more backpack groups and trying to feed DAC, KTM, BKK etc etc they are not exactly making any extra revenue. E.g LHR-BOM returns cost about £500 whereas LHR-BOM-BKK return costs £550. So all Jet are getting is an extra £50 for another 6 hours of flying.
Bonkers! Premium fares are where the money is. Their premium to Economy ratio is too low!
Catering to traffic as diverse as Indian traffic (ranging from well educated professionals to well connected politicos with pot bellied local Indian business man in the middle) is not an easy job.
Aug 26, 2012, 9:03 pm
#124
Join Date: Oct 2010
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9W May Not Join *A After All
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/je...iance/993545/0
The AoI Alliance Saga continues...
Star Alliance, the world’s largest airline alliance, may not get any member airline from India — one of the world’s largest growing aviation market.
After the 27-strong member alliance rejected Air India’s application for a membership, Jet Airways, who is in talks with the alliance, may decide against joining the group.
“We are talking to all three alliances and may not join Star Alliance because they already have a strong member in this side of the world,” said a senior Jet executive on condition of anonymity.
The Naresh Goyal-promoted airline is also in talks with global alliances Oneworld and SkyTeam.
“We do not know how much will we benefit by joining the alliance with Singapore already a member. There is a thinking that the benefits will not be much from Star Alliance and our talks with the other two airline alliances is also on,” he said.
Jet Airways was invited by the alliance to become its member on the grounds that India, being a large market, can have two members in the alliance.
To facilitate Jet Airways’ entry, Star Alliance had put a condition before the civil aviation ministry to allow both Air India and Jet Airways to join the alliance together. The ministry, however, had said that Jet will only be allowed to join after Air India completes its joining.
After keeping Air India’s membership on hold for a year, the alliance decided not to suspend the national carrier’s membership on the ground that it had not fulfilled the criteria it had agreed to.
Air India had also paid around Rs 55 crore as joining fee to the alliance.
A query sent to Jet Airways did not elicit any response.
Star Alliance has Lufthansa, Air Canada, Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways and Swiss, among other members.
After the 27-strong member alliance rejected Air India’s application for a membership, Jet Airways, who is in talks with the alliance, may decide against joining the group.
“We are talking to all three alliances and may not join Star Alliance because they already have a strong member in this side of the world,” said a senior Jet executive on condition of anonymity.
The Naresh Goyal-promoted airline is also in talks with global alliances Oneworld and SkyTeam.
“We do not know how much will we benefit by joining the alliance with Singapore already a member. There is a thinking that the benefits will not be much from Star Alliance and our talks with the other two airline alliances is also on,” he said.
Jet Airways was invited by the alliance to become its member on the grounds that India, being a large market, can have two members in the alliance.
To facilitate Jet Airways’ entry, Star Alliance had put a condition before the civil aviation ministry to allow both Air India and Jet Airways to join the alliance together. The ministry, however, had said that Jet will only be allowed to join after Air India completes its joining.
After keeping Air India’s membership on hold for a year, the alliance decided not to suspend the national carrier’s membership on the ground that it had not fulfilled the criteria it had agreed to.
Air India had also paid around Rs 55 crore as joining fee to the alliance.
A query sent to Jet Airways did not elicit any response.
Star Alliance has Lufthansa, Air Canada, Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways and Swiss, among other members.
The AoI Alliance Saga continues...
Aug 26, 2012, 9:19 pm
#125
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Aug 27, 2012, 12:30 am
#127
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: bombay
Posts: 1,408
HHAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
The JetZophrenia's only exacerbating.
Whilst I still say going Sky will be a much better choide for Jet than to go Star, I also must repeat : HHAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH HHAHAHAHAAAAHAHHHHAHAAHAHAHAH HHAAHHHAHAHAHAAAAHAHHHHAHAH !
The JetZophrenia's only exacerbating.
Whilst I still say going Sky will be a much better choide for Jet than to go Star, I also must repeat : HHAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH HHAHAHAHAAAAHAHHHHAHAAHAHAHAH HHAAHHHAHAHAHAAAAHAHHHHAHAH !
Aug 27, 2012, 4:47 am
#131
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: world
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Posts: 1,422
What do they mean talking with Skyteam. Delta kicked them out as a partner. seems unlikely they would be accepted by skyteam. also they talk about sq being with star. Did they forget oneworld has cathay??
These guys are nuts
These guys are nuts
Aug 27, 2012, 5:30 am
#132
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA 1.6MM EXP; UA GS; SPG LTG,Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
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This all may or may not be relevant. My own guess is that 9W wants to be "on par" with SQ in the alliance in terms of being able to protect its F award inventory etc, and that * wasn't too impressed with the idea. Regardless of the in-flight experience, 9W ain't no SQ
I'm guessing that 9W overall is not exactly thrilled its relatively weak bargaining position w.r.t. *A, esp. when * holds many of the cards in terms of having excellent coverage of most major (business) destinations in India with LH and SQ (and to a lesser degree TG).
While I'm sure * would love to get feeders from 9W, their potential high revenue pax are likely to already be concentrated in the cities now served by SQ and LH (BOM, DEL, HYD, BLR, PNQ, MAA etc); so the delta would largely be the leisure feed. Which helps loads but not revenue.
Pure speculation, of course
Aug 27, 2012, 5:50 am
#133
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: bombay
Posts: 1,408
Indeed, but SQ has far better coverage in India than CX (and probably a healthier overlap with 9W destinations).
This all may or may not be relevant. My own guess is that 9W wants to be "on par" with SQ in the alliance in terms of being able to protect its F award inventory etc, and that * wasn't too impressed with the idea. Regardless of the in-flight experience, 9W ain't no SQ
I'm guessing that 9W overall is not exactly thrilled its relatively weak bargaining position w.r.t. *A, esp. when * holds many of the cards in terms of having excellent coverage of most major (business) destinations in India with LH and SQ (and to a lesser degree TG).
While I'm sure * would love to get feeders from 9W, their potential high revenue pax are likely to already be concentrated in the cities now served by SQ and LH (BOM, DEL, HYD, BLR, PNQ, MAA etc); so the delta would largely be the leisure feed. Which helps loads but not revenue.
Pure speculation, of course
This all may or may not be relevant. My own guess is that 9W wants to be "on par" with SQ in the alliance in terms of being able to protect its F award inventory etc, and that * wasn't too impressed with the idea. Regardless of the in-flight experience, 9W ain't no SQ
I'm guessing that 9W overall is not exactly thrilled its relatively weak bargaining position w.r.t. *A, esp. when * holds many of the cards in terms of having excellent coverage of most major (business) destinations in India with LH and SQ (and to a lesser degree TG).
While I'm sure * would love to get feeders from 9W, their potential high revenue pax are likely to already be concentrated in the cities now served by SQ and LH (BOM, DEL, HYD, BLR, PNQ, MAA etc); so the delta would largely be the leisure feed. Which helps loads but not revenue.
Pure speculation, of course
NG : Arrey, Anita, now new vanda's come. Star looked like a done deal after the beastly Air India realised they can't stand in our way for anything (your idea of 10 khokhas instead of two helped, of course!).
AG : What happened now?
NG : Arrey, Anita, now Star is making all these demands. They want to make sure we make changes to be in line with the rest of the alliance.
AG : What are they talking about? There's nothing we need to change... We're perfect as we are. If anything, they need to change to be more like us.
NG : I know, right? But, arrey, Anita, they're going on about things like connectivity, image, standards and the like. And - get this - your pet Jet Privilege.
AG : W%$%T&*@F? What? Who do they think they are? Don't they know we're Jet Airways? We're the best. Everything about us is the best. Ever. We don't need to improve anything. Hell, we couldn't even if we wanted to, because there is no room for improvement. We're that good. And I've made sure of that.
NG : I know, Anita, I know. But arrey, Anita, what to do.
AG : Let's call Paris and London and see what they offer us. Shouldn't be a problem, because everyone knows we're amazing and they would be lucky to have us.
NG : Arrey, Anita.... you're a genius!
AG : I know!
Aug 27, 2012, 5:54 am
#134
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA 1.6MM EXP; UA GS; SPG LTG,Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,477
I think you're giving Jet far too much credit. I imagine, rather, that the decision was precipitated by a conversation more on the lines of:
NG : Arrey, Anita, now new vanda's come. Star looked like a done deal after the beastly Air India realised they can't stand in our way for anything (your idea of 10 khokhas instead of two helped, of course!).
AG : What happened now?
NG : Arrey, Anita, now Star is making all these demands. They want to make sure we make changes to be in line with the rest of the alliance.
AG : What are they talking about? There's nothing we need to change... We're perfect as we are. If anything, they need to change to be more like us.
NG : I know, right? But, arrey, Anita, they're going on about things like connectivity, image, standards and the like. And - get this - your pet Jet Privilege.
AG : W%$%T&*@F? What? Who do they think they are? Don't they know we're Jet Airways? We're the best. Everything about us is the best. Ever. We don't need to improve anything. Hell, we couldn't even if we wanted to, because there is no room for improvement. We're that good. And I've made sure of that.
NG : I know, Anita, I know. But arrey, Anita, what to do.
AG : Let's call Paris and London and see what they offer us. Shouldn't be a problem, because everyone knows we're amazing and they would be lucky to have us.
NG : Arrey, Anita.... you're a genius!
AG : I know!
NG : Arrey, Anita, now new vanda's come. Star looked like a done deal after the beastly Air India realised they can't stand in our way for anything (your idea of 10 khokhas instead of two helped, of course!).
AG : What happened now?
NG : Arrey, Anita, now Star is making all these demands. They want to make sure we make changes to be in line with the rest of the alliance.
AG : What are they talking about? There's nothing we need to change... We're perfect as we are. If anything, they need to change to be more like us.
NG : I know, right? But, arrey, Anita, they're going on about things like connectivity, image, standards and the like. And - get this - your pet Jet Privilege.
AG : W%$%T&*@F? What? Who do they think they are? Don't they know we're Jet Airways? We're the best. Everything about us is the best. Ever. We don't need to improve anything. Hell, we couldn't even if we wanted to, because there is no room for improvement. We're that good. And I've made sure of that.
NG : I know, Anita, I know. But arrey, Anita, what to do.
AG : Let's call Paris and London and see what they offer us. Shouldn't be a problem, because everyone knows we're amazing and they would be lucky to have us.
NG : Arrey, Anita.... you're a genius!
AG : I know!
Aug 27, 2012, 8:15 am
#135
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
There are also clauses that either party may terminate the agreement at anytime after notifying the other party in a manner stipulated by the agreement. Or When