hyderago

In addition to what GUWonder said, I think there's another reason. It's not so much that 9W is asking the govt for permission, but rather getting their blessing. The idea is that AI really wanted to join *A, but was not able to. So 9W wants to make sure that if they do join *A, the govt/AI will not get upset and retaliate against them.

Yaatri

GoI said last year that *A cannot have another airline unless it accept AI, while *'s stand was both, 9W and AI or none.
Also, isn't foreign trade, along with defence, foreign affairs, is under reserved list? Or is it concurrent?

PVDtoDEL

GoI has told *A that it must either accept or reject AI before it does anything with 9W.

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...cision/482113/

This is great news - it's hopefully the start of the alliance situation getting sorted out in India. No more of this "application suspended, now lets twiddle our thumbs" crap...

SQ421

Accept or Reject? I hope they reject.

PVDtoDEL

Well, I (unsurprisingly) hope they accept.

But regardless, I'd welcome a rejection too - then maybe AI will start seriously considering joining ST/OW instead of just waiting on *A. Any alliance is better than no alliance...

SQ421

Love the restraint. Down under, we'd call it same sh!t different bucket.

SQ421

Er, it works the other way round. What alliance AI wants to join is secondary to which member airline of a particular alliance will sponsor AIs entry. After this clusterflap that was AI's intended membership of *A, I don't see any OW or ST member stepping up to be the sponsor.

ST might be the best fit. All things considered.

PVDtoDEL

AI is more or less compliant with alliance requirements. Financial issues aren't something an alliance is going to care about as long as the government is still there backing AI, and AI's IT, etc. has all been upgraded to be alliance-compliant. AI's suspension was mostly politics.

Mind you, that doesn't excuse the fact that AI took far longer than it should have to get itself ready, but if AI tried to join an alliance today, it would be a far easier (and quicker) process.

I'm sure both OW and ST would both be happy to have AI when the alternative is to be locked out of the Indian market.

SQ421

"Locked Out" ?

CX/KA and BA together fly to BOM, DEL, MAA, HYD, BLR.

If QF/EK alliance goes ahead, it'll be even more (atleast on the QF Code); arguably higher "one stop" reach into India than what AI could hope to provide.

Other airlines in OW have individual tie-ups with 9W and IT.

Not sure where you come up with "locked out of the Indian Market" from, or what exactly you mean by it. Nice rhetoric though. Indian aviation does seem to inflate its importance to the "alliances" than what the "alliances" think its worth.

PVDtoDEL

I don't really think the number of cities each alliance serves is particularly helpful at telling the importance of Indian carriers.

However, if you'd like to use number of destinations served as a metric, I submit this:
Star Alliance serves less than 10 destinations direct from DEL.
AI serves 60+.
9W serves 40+.

BOM is similar. HYD, BLR, MAA, ATQ, PNQ and CCU have limited alliance connectivity. Airports like AMD, NAG, and (my hometown) IXE have no alliance connectivity at all.

SQ421

Despite that disparity in number of destinations, *A walked away from the mess that is AI. What does that tell you about the perceived importance of Indian carriers?

QED

Never mind the discussion about how any of those secondary and tertiary destinations like NAG and IXE have alliance loyal fliers as opposed to price sensitive ones. Further ignore the fact that people in PNQ would rather drive to BOM than hike out to Lohgad and run the gauntlet of delayed flights and transfer chaos.

PVDtoDEL

*A walked away from AI because they wanted 9W. This is a commentary on the perceived importance of AI in relation to 9W, not of Indian carriers in general.
IXE has a large 9W following. I know many 9W Plats who live near me. FFPs certainly to matter to some people (with money).


I don't know if that generalization is fair. I know that I'd pick a connection over a 4+ hour drive any day.

A2A

While I would like to believe you that *A wanted 9w from the start, please explain how is it related to walking away from AI.

Also, howmany is 'large 9w following' according to you? Numbers, please?

PVDtoDEL

Don't you remember how the fiasco unfolded?
http://www.livemint.com/2011/08/0122....html?atype=tp

I know personally ~20 9W Plats in IXE, and probably ~50 9W Golds. I'm sure there are many more who I don't know.

20 may not seem like a big number, but at a small station like IXE, it's a big deal. In comparison, I only know 5 AI Golds and 0 AI Maharaja Club members in IXE... Although that may be because of the horrible treatment IC has given IXE over the years...

jasepl

I agree that their F and J hard products rank up there amongst the best I have flown.

Everything else though is an increasingly sad letdown.

That's rich, coming from the Undisputed World Champion of Thumb Twiddling : Air India.

Hahah! That's one of the few things I've never been accused of : restraint. That was posted in another context; I usually have other, rather choice words at the tip of my tongue.

Honestly, if there must be alliance membership, then I still think Star will work better for AI and Skyteam better for Jet.

Locked out? Who's locked out?

The only ones I see locked out of the Indian market are Air India and Jet Airways. And that's because they will have ended up locking themselves out - they're halfway down that path anyway.

In any event, the idea of the Indian market is very, very far removed from the reality of it.

Really? Now a mainstream article is perfectly trustworthy?

And in any event, no. Simply going by what AI said or, worse, what a bureaucrat said is being incredibly naïve.

Star Alliance gave Air India the finger because they were fed up of waiting.

And before anyone bursts into a combination of protests, conspiracy theories, finger-pointing and naively believing all that a government official spouts out, Star's decision was perfectly justified.

Star invited Air India to join, yes, but subject to certain criteria, certainly. Which, I presume, included Air India getting their act together by a certain date or within a "reasonable" time. Neither of which AI did. Four years is unacceptable from any angle, regardless of the reason or excuse.

We don't know for sure what exactly each of those reasons these airlines had for not wanting AI anymore. I doubt it's because Air India were crap (or Jet were less crap), because that's not a new finding, and Star have their fair share of crap airlines. I suspect it's because they concluded that enough is enough.

When AI moved at such a glacial pace for alliance entry - and everything else, really - one can't blame Star members if they're worried about a future with AI. Air India's hopelessness has a rather minimal impact on the alliance now; if they were to become a member, and continued behaving the same way (a perfectly fair expectation), the impact could be significant.

Shut the damn thing down immediately and put the exchequer out of its misery.