SQ421

Still waiting to hear your explanation on OW/ST/*A being "locked out" of the Indian Market btw...

A2A

My views exactly except you got them here before me. I hope PVDtoDEL has his answers. To add, *A did not throw AI out, the CEO board of the member airlines of *A voted against AI being in *A, that means about 2 dozen seasoned aviation professionals were on the table who run airlines bigger or smaller than AI.

http://www.staralliance.com/en/press/starairindia-prp/

as for shutting down the damn thing, yes, shut it down or send me revenue tickets in line with the amount of taxes I pay which gets sent to the airline as dole.

Yaatri

It's not that they are prevented from flying to India but the don't have benefits of having an Indian carrier in the alliance if they c=don't have an Indian member.

hyderago

Clearly, AI is not compliant or they would have joined *A last year.

I'm not buying this. *A doesn't seem that dumb to me. I think the reason you provided was the official reason given just so AI could save face and not admit that it did not meet alliance requirements.

Agreed.

A2A

You sure are well connected. But 20 plats and 50 golds in a scheme of about 2 million members (17 lakh members in 2010, can't locate latest nos. so extrapolating a bit) is a small decimal rounding off.

jasepl

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9000/5.0.0.822 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

Indeed.

I live in South Bombay, which possibly has the highest concentration of airline elites in the country, and I can't say I personally know half that number.

But here we have not just knowing so many elites, but also intimate knowledge of working practices, being the confidant of choice for pilots unions, media managers' preferred point of leakage, a global bellwether for what's fantastic... And so much more.

rurouni212

While *A may have played hardball, the fact that it took AI 4 years to try to join and the fact that the alliance was forced to set a deadline for joining threw up all kinds of red flags about AI. AI and the GoI dug their own grave as far as this goes. They just got mad when someone threw dirt on top of them.

PVDtoDEL

Well, yeah... AI has been twiddling its thumbs and maintaining "we'll get to Star one day" instead of actively pursuing opportunities with other alliances or trying to reconcile differences with Star... That's thumb twiddling, and not particularly rich.

You guys want mainstream articles, so I provided one...

Did you read the article I linked to? Mainstream, just as you like :
http://www.livemint.com/2011/08/0122....html?atype=tp
As I said, this is IXE. We are a 5-flight per day station. The absolute number of 9W followers may be low, but in comparison to the following other airlines have here, it's huge.

Yaatri

Let's not argue about why AI was rejected. That was discussed in detail last year. NO one said *A is dumb. There has to be explanation other than meeting requirements when it found ET suitable.

AI's rejection is fact. AI was not going to be admitted without 9W. Now 9W has requested for permission to join *A. Let's stick to the issue and facts.
What should/would happen to 9W's application is what we should be discussing.

hyderago

You're right, I do generally prefer mainstream articles. And yes, I read it. I agree that the article probably quoted the *A person accurately. But my point is that the *A and AI officials may not have been telling us the real reason because of some political game they are playing.

This is not something crazy that I am suggesting. We know that politicians and businesspeople often say stuff in press conferences in order to hide something else.

hyderago

Well, the thread is about Jet asking GoI for permission to join *A. A few natural discussion points are (1) why Jet would need such permission in the first place and (2) the likelihood of them being granted such permission.

In my opinion, the answers to these questions are at least somewhat related to why AI (i.e. GoI) was denied entry into *A last year. For instance, if AI was denied entry because their systems were not ready, it's one thing. In such a case, 9W's application might have a relatively higher chance of being approved. But if AI was denied entry because *A also wanted 9W, then I just don't see why GoI would allow 9W to join *A this year.

So I think it is fair to discuss why AI was denied entry into *A last year in the context of understanding Jet's request for permission to join *A this year.

Yaatri

Regardless of why AI was rejected by *A, *A was well within its power to do so. Whether its exercised its power judiciously or with ulterior motives is not the issue.
It's well within GoI's power to reject 9W's application outright, or take its own sweet time, as is the norm, to act on it.
But should it? This soap opera needs to end. The Govt should act in the interest of the industry, not just AI. Jet Airways might take it (*A's preference for 9W) a victory, but in all likelihood, it's the kiss of death. Jet has a better chance of survival in another alliance. But it's Jet Airways' prerogative to make that choice, GoI cannot decide for 9W.
GoI does get to decide lots of other things vis-a-vis LH. That's where the action should be.

If 9W's application to join *A is rejected, it will disappoint my fellow enthusiasts on this board, but will not hurt 9W in the long run. It would serve *A right if it were.

rurouni212

I certainly agree with this. This can't drag on forever just because the GoI refuses to let AI be anything more then its own private fleet.

Yaatri

That's a valid question. Other than anti-trus, or MRTPA, there should not be any other consideration. But GoI does own AI and has a duty to act in the interest of AI, as well as Indian aviation industry (there isa conflict of interest here). Additionally, it is foreign trade which is regulated by GoI.
Also the intrigue generated by AI's attempts to join *A last year should not be ignored.
It does not matter why AI was denied entry. That it was is fait accompli. Its application was not denied, but suspended. It's curious, to say the least.
Whether it's fair or not, is not the issue. The issue is how GoI should act on the request made by GoI. We can discuss why AI was rejected, rather, why AI's application was suspended until the cows come home, we will not be able to resolve it. Too many people here want to discus this issue emotionally. That you or someone else wants 9W's application to be accepted is not relevant here. This is what I said when AI was under consideration by *A.

What GoI's objectives should be, and how it can best achieve them is the issue. Clearly *A or those who wield power in *A are going to act in its interest, possibly in the interest of a powerful member, not in Jet's interest. WE expect 9W to act in its own interest. Even if it's too dumb to know what's best for it, that decision is to be made by Jet and it has made that decision. Now it's GoI's turn.

If you do want to discuss AI's application for membership to *A, think about why it was NOT rejected. It was suspended. But nothing new will come out of that discussion either, as these points were raised before too. People have their minds made up and see only what they want to see.

Yaatri

Some FF's think the same about Jet. They expect Jet to give away business class seats for economy class fare. There will always be interest groups who want to maximise their advantage whether it's AI, or Jet.