Babu

I've deleted some petty comments, personal attacks and borderline personal attacks.

Please stop.

Babu
Moderator, IBA

Yaatri

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Can you please elaborate as to what yo do not agree with?
AS I have said many times before, it's incumbent upon the GoI,a s the owner of AI, to do everything possible to promote it. It's also incumbent upon it to do everything possible to promote airlines of India, including IT, 9W, or any other airline.
Has the GoI done it (especially the latter) well? No. It lavished privileges on LH.
If AI does not get what GoI hope to get the favours granted to LH are not helpful to airlines of India.
Regardless of which airlines or alliance you prefer, the basis of discussion on evaluating GoI's behaviour has to be merits of the situation.
We all know who prefers what.
Comparing GoI's stand to "dog in the manger" makes little sense.

You want GoI to do right. But only that right that benefits you or your preferred airline. That's hardly a basis of conducting a sincere discussion.

Should GoI not try to make playing field, which tilts heavily in the favour of LH, level for Indian carriers. Should GoI not seek compensation from *A. To complain about AI delaying the decision to level the playing field or retrieve taxpayer money being, is not consistent with shouting from the top of roof about GoI wasting taxpayers' money. @:-)

Consistency and honesty gentlemen!

A2A

what favours?

by the same logic should members of the *A not seek compensation from AI for their wasted time and resources and the delays that were caused because AI took its own sweet time?

diamantaire

completely agree with you !!

malgudi

Care to share details?

ashishp

There is another angle to this whole *A saga. Admittedly a conspiracy theory but with so many of those floating around, whats one more?

remember Air India is composed of 2 separate airlines, that have merged only in name. They remain for all practical purposes, 2 separate airlines to date with separate processes and service standards etc etc. While one is unabashedly pro-Boeing, the other has a marked preference for airbus. And so on. While one has been looking to get in bed with LH for decades, the other has shown a preference for Air France: whatever the reason. Years back, when the airlines were still separate, directors of both companies have had a public pow-wow in Rajiv Gandhi Bhavan on this topic. I say public, because sections of the media had a ringside view of this tamasha.

Remember just before the merger, IC was making its own plans to go international, acquiring upto 10 A330-200's for international operations. Their international plan centred around creating 2 hubs: SIN and CDG with a smaller one at SHJ. Coincidence? This plan was scuttled under pressure after 4 A330's joined the fleet.

While the IC guys felt the 2 state owned carriers could be members of separate alliances, the ministry in its wisdom insisted that BOTH should join the same alliance. IC guys were unhappy that the minister insisted on *A as the choice for both the carriers. There has been a fair amount of resentment over this and allegations of LH having paid the minister in question.

While the AI group sat smug, the IC group worked to acquire dominance in the management of the merged carrier: especially after the former minister was shown the door. Note at this point that the former CMD of IC is quite a politician himself! The ministers exit from the MoCA enabled the IC group to acquire dominance.

It is now clear, that in the fight for dominance between the 2 formerly separate entities, the IC group has won out and the former AI group has been caught with its pants down. Incidents like the recent strike are attempts by the former AI group to reassert their dominance, and the now dominant IC-group putting them down ruthlessly. It is no coincidence that the AI pilots strike was being co-ordinated by a politician(Jitendra Awhad) of the same party that the former Aviation minister came from, or that the former minister offered his "services" to resolve the issue: an offer that was not so subtly put down.

There has been an attempt by this dominant IC section to scuttle LH's chances, since they see LH as an airline equivalent of the East India company. They see better synergies and opportunities to work with the Skyteam. LH at some level understands this and is seeking to make amends by making a desperate bid for 9W to get onboard. 9W itself, as i understand it, is reluctant to commit at this point and there is political pressure on them( yes pressure on a private carrier) to sign up with LH. If 9W refuses, and AI gets onto Skyteam, LH will be in some trouble as far as India market is concerned. If you have listened to some of Nira Radia's tapes, on how LH and EK bought bilaterals and access into the Indian market, you will get some idea on the dynamics at play here.

Conspiracy theory maybe. But this theory is based on my limited understanding of the Ministry and Airlines dynamics. I personally think the AI mgmt (now run by ex-IC managers) deliberately adopted a go-slow to scuttle a decision that had been forced on them.

AJLondon

Despite Babu's above warning, some further posts still did not adhere to the request and needed to be deleted.

Again, please follow Babu's advice and focus solely on the topic at hand, without making it personal.

Thanks,
AJLondon,
Moderator, IbA

k819

http://murderingthemaharaja.blogspot...-happened.html

Good article...not sure how authentic it is

Yaatri

This has been discussed at length in other threads. Please use the search function on FT or search on google.

Yaatri

What? *A deserves compensation from AI?
Certainly not. The example you cited is blatantly flawed.
If you apply for admission and for whatever reason, you are turned down, you may sue or ask for compensation from the institution if refusal was not based on qualifications. Institution cannot go after the applicant.

I find it hard to believe that it was a serious question. But one never knows how others process and evaluate information.

15a

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...m-ends/482772/

As per this article (basis an interview with the MoCA) the government of india has made its peace with AI not joining star (& asked it to explore Skyteam and Oneworld). It (or more specifically the minister) doesn't seem to have a problem with 9w joining Star

The interview is here
http://business-standard.com/india/n...-singh/482794/

PVDtoDEL

I don't quite get what this article means...:
Does this mean that AI's application has been formally rejected by *A?

If so, then the road has indeed cleared to 9W joining *A.

I'm not sure whether it's just an attempt to sensationalize an interview with Ajit Singh, or actual news coverage of *A's rejection.

A2A

I thought you would hv already known this, but will explain. Star alliance's highest decision making body is the CEO board where each member airline CEO gets a vote. It was not the star alliance CEO but this board that booted out air India a year back.

Like the article says, There is a letter that air India/Ajit Singh got from *A last week where they(the CEO board) could not decide still on air India membership. So "they practically said no". Maybe they expect AI to withdraw their application rather than rejecting them.

PVDtoDEL

Yes, I know this.
I understand that they have "practically said no" - but is that a formal rejection? I understand that if AI is formally rejected, then they might be entitled to getting their joining fees (60+ crores) back, etc. etc. In contrast, if they withdraw, they are forfeiting all of that. And, as long as they don't withdraw, their application is still "pending," so 9W cannot join.

*A may want AI to withdraw, but why would AI want to play along?

A2A

in the business world it is not always about the money, but pride as well. I hope that gives you a cue on the lines of what I am thinking..


and 9w cannot join is not a *A thing, its a MoCA thing

AI does not have any reason to stay hanging if they know the mood of the alliance, rather than just as a spoilsport, which basically sullies its own image and kind of will want everyone to distance themselves from AI. If you read the article under discussion carefully, it also says somewhere that AI's strike did more harm than good to them in the image department.