DrSickle

Another thing I found out about W fares during a “negotiation” with revenue management last week:

On the JV route to Japan, there are set prices/fare basises that include all those classes that were removed from the booking system last year (some of these are used to sell codeshare W atm). I remember from here that all W booking classes were priced between two Y prices, except for the highest one which naturally was between full Y and some J fare. Of course, I forgot to actually make notes of these, but at least on this JV route it seems unlikely that fares would be separated exactly as in the graph.

I also noted that there exists a business campaign fare to JPN (was around 1400-1500 € at the date I was checking) – I don’t expect us to ever see that one used though.

Ed Size

J-light sounds like the real PE - bring your own booze makes it attractive (are the ice cubes free of charge?)

intuition

Together with the pre-announcement of new ticket types there was a message saying fares for PE would be introduced later this year. So on one hand officially this is still coming and technically PE can be sold for flights (late) in 2021. But really?
The initial press release said "The rollout of Premium Economy class to Finnair’s long-haul fleet starts in Q4 2020" and for such a timetable to work, fares should have been launched already by now. And with the current situation going, I can hardly see any airline has the cash to pay for a cabin-reconfigure. Even i f traffic returns by summer, I'm thinking there are large holes to fill before doing investments. So will we really see PE fares this year and PE cabins in the air 2021?

NoWindowSeat

Totally similar thinking as intuition above, if I was managing an airline now I would vote to cancel all non-mandatory capital expenditure until further notice, simple as that. If something has already been started and is more expensive to cancel then look at case by case -basis.

ffay005

Somehow I have the feeling that AY hasn't been very enthusiastic about PE overall, even before the current situation. My guess is it might be silently cancelled.

OH-LGG

No one needs PE now. Only thing now is to survive.

haapalainen

AY will most likely not reconfigure their cabins with PE seating very aggressively so it might take a long time (years?) before all aircraft have the new cabin. So IMO they shouldn't be selling PE fares much before they have at least a few aircraft with the new PE seats to avoid disappointments when aircraft swaps occur.

remymartin

KL sell PE even though they don’t truly have it as a product - it’s more like economy comfort. Poor people who’re rerouted from AF to KL

Superrman

Very selfish perhaps, but I will gladly accept no PE in cabin. Nearly guaranteed to (further) devalue the upgrade voucher perk.

on22cz

Very selfish for sure, but I will gladly accept old ANA style with complimentary upgrades to PE for black card holders, while improving the voucher system to the one somebody suggested here:
1 voucher Y-J SH
2 vouchers PE-J LH
4 vouchers Y-J LH

Oh, you see how the vouchers gained some extra value?

intuition

Interesting (I haven't picked up on any such vibe though).

I'm thinking along lines that they are in a squeeze. I assume they went for PE for the sake of money. And you don't decide on an big investment unless you thnk there are big monies to be made.
Remember they were talking about upgrading J seats a few years ago. That didn't happen. Ie not enough monies to be made. But they talked about PE to investors just a few months ago, confirming the launch plans.

So my take is that they see PE as the big potential earner, and that is their dire straits now. They put a lot of effort into the future big earner and now they can't afford it.

miamiflyer8

I have a feeling this is too complicated for AY IT.

Superrman

I don't plan for "best case scenario"

intuition

CAPA did a crude analysis of different airlines' liquidity, and compared it to daily revenue to get a feel on how long each airline can live without income (if there is no cost-cutting). No surprise where D8 is, but it was interesting to see the difference between SK and AY .



Entire article here

I suspect the large liquidity AY has in comparison, is meant to facilitate neartime investment - in my thinking the premium economy cabin reconfig. So while big liquidity comes in handy these days, I take this as one more sign that PE-investment needs to be re-assesed. They are not under any imminent threat of liquidity crisis, but coming out with less liquidity will probably affect the will to take on new investment?

ffay005

Not surprised about the difference between AY and SK. But very surprised to see that LH is in the same league with SK. Interesting times. Germany will surely help LH out, though.