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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old May 16, 2017, 1:37 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: lkrt
General
Upgrade space is capacity controlled, separately from revenue space in J cabin. The number of seats released to the different upgrade types are driven by a number of factors, but never by the "there are unsold seats in J cabin, let's fill them" policy some other airlines employ. Same applies with upgrades to Premium Economy.

Upgrades now book into fare bucket U, which is also used for business class awards. Note that availability tools such as Expertflyer etc. may or may not show correct U availability as AY tends to offer additional U availability to Plats and Lumos, and this hidden availability is not shown by non-AY affiliated availability tools. Premium Economy upgrade availability is in bucket F, with the above disclaimers applying similarly.

You can upgrade and review the available upgrade options at https://www.finnair.com/en/manage/upgrade.

The searches below very often show zero availability. Very few directly confirmable seats are released in particularly longhaul J. Instead upgrades must go on waitlist, from where a robot processes upgrades from an unknown set of parameters. A waitlisted upgrade can clear in minutes or never, and there is no way to know. Waitlisted upgrades are checked at T-59, 21, 10, 5 days, and at T-37 hours.

Final check most often actually takes place at approximately ~T-38 hours and you will be (most often) notified by email. In case you are denied an upgrade at this point and there is still revenue availability in J, you can contact CS which may be able to upgrade you on the spot or contact "another department" for confirmation. Furthermore, you may contact check-in desk at least in HEL, which may be able to process your upgrade.

You can check for the upgrades upon booking on the Finnair website. Each flight has a separate tab for "Upgrades", showing upgrade availability for PE and J if any exists, otherwise you will be waitlisted. Additionally, you may check your upgrade options for an already-booked flight here. EF gives you an idea of upgrade availability in the U bucket.


Upgrade-types
1. Upgrades with points
2. Upgrades with vouchers
3. Cash upgrades
5. Cash upgrades at airport
6. Complimentary upgrades

Upgrades with AY+ points

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights and points+money combos are ineligible (booking class X)
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)
Cost:
  • Northern Europe (ARN, BGO, CPH, GOT, KEF, KRK, OSL, WAW, WRO) 10,000 points one way
  • Rest of Europe, TLV 15,000 points one way
  • long haul (including DXB, DOH) 60,000 points one way
    • Previously, shorthaul connections were upgraded at the same cost but this has been discontinued as of 15JUN23. If you wish to upgrade a shorthaul feeder flight, a separate points charge will apply.
  • there have been some occasional promotions especially for short haul upgrades (winter and summer campaigns)
Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your points will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your points will be returned to you but you will lose any points that have expired during the waiting time
  • your points need to be valid at time of processing the request but they do not need to be valid on the day of the flight
  • When confirmed, you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U (or F for Premium Economy) but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • as an unpublished perk, you may choose to change your upgrade from a points one to a voucher one by calling AY; your points will be returned to you save for any points that may have expired
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you may conctact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have points returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or potentially, original booking class) to allow this, and your points expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades with vouchers
Vouchers are given to Finnair+ members upon advancing to and retaining the platinum and gold tiers. You can see number of vouchers, their type and expiry in your Finnair+ account.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights booked via AY+ are also eligible (booking class X)
  • most likely, points+money combos are eligible, too, since they book into X, but we have no verification of this
  • award flights booked via parners (eg. Avios, AAdvantage etc) are not eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)

Cost:
  • Northern Europe one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • Rest of Europe, TLV one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • longhaul (including DXB, DOH) one "Longhaul" voucher for a one-way flight
  • LH voucher does not include upgrade for connecting shorthaul (like it does with points upgrades), SH flight requires a separate voucher/points upgrade
  • you may exchange four European vouchers for one "Longhaul" voucher or vice versa by calling AY

Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your voucher will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your voucher will be returned to you but you will lose any vouchers that have expired during the waiting time
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you can contact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have voucher returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or original booking class) to allow this, and your voucher expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • all usual J perks like priority check-in, one additional piece of baggage (23kg), priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Cash upgrades, offered on website / app
On the app as well as on the upgrade tool you can review if an upgrade is offered at a cash price. The prices vary, and reports can be seen here. The cash prices become available at 60 days prior to departure and may fluctuate in the timeframe prior to departure.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (or operated by Norra or Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair (wetlease))
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • you do not need to be a AY+ member

Cost:
Process:
  • Check the app or the upgrade tool for cash prices (earliest 60 days prior to departure)
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades paid in cash at the airport

(Note that according to recent reports, check-in agents are in some cases only able to process last-minute points and voucher upgrades.)

Requirements:
  • upgrades may be available for purchase at check-in
  • flight operated by AY or Norra
  • ticketed booking in economy
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • most likely AY+ & partner award flights in economy are eligible, too, though this is unconfirmed
  • the marketing carrier does not matter, so this is the only upgrade where codeshares are eligible

Cost:
  • varies, expect to pay some hundreds of euros for long haul one way

Process:
  • the upgrade will be processed and paid for at the check-in desk of the airport of departure
  • most likely the above means the airport of departure of that particular flight, so to upgrade HEL-BKK on a CPH-HEL-BKK itinerary, you would need to contact (transfer) check-in at HEL
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. The odds of being bumped back into Y are close to 0 as AY will not offer these upgrades if J is overbooked

Perks:
  • Only in-flight perks apply
  • Lounge access, priority security, additional checked in baggage is not extended to airport upgraders
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Complimentary operational upgrades
  • usually just a new boarding pass & seat either at the gate, at check-in or even after you have boarded
  • few and far between
  • the decision whom to upgrade on a particular flight seems a bit random but is at least partially dependent on the price of your ticket, booking class and status
    • AY highest tier members (Lumos, Plats, Golds) are prioritised with the travelling party size affecting upgrade priority (i.e. if only one seat is available in J, the party will not be split)
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old Sep 18, 2019, 8:26 am
  #1021  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,602
Originally Posted by ffay005
For a platinum member, the only change here seems to be that your waitlist will never clear more than two months in advance. That certainly is not good news.

I would assume that we can still call in at T37 and have them process an instant upgrade if there is availability.
This. Now thinking back, I remember the overwhelm of reports here from Lumo members how they called in to waitlist and noticed anywhere between hanging-up and 24 hours from the call that the upgrade request had cleared, so I became overwhelmed by that too. Now having upgraded 6 longhauls already as Lumo, all of them have gone to waitlist until T-37 and one rejected, I have a serious reason not to be happy...feeling not very Lumoutunut in finnish about this new superlevel

Well I understand the basic concern is that all finnair flights are these days so fully booked that there is no upgrade space to start with. I guess when recession comes and companies and folks start to save money on flights, soon the loadfactors come down and then poor economy-pleb Lumos can enjoy the upgrade space wide open.
LOL
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Old Sep 18, 2019, 10:03 am
  #1022  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
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Posts: 3,620
Originally Posted by FFlash
I guess when recession comes and companies and folks start to save money on flights, soon the loadfactors come down and then poor economy-pleb Lumos can enjoy the upgrade space wide open.
LOL
When the recession comes, the first things companies will cut are travel costs. So you won't have so many flights to upgrade... and you will lose status.

(Well maybe not FFlash specifically, but many frequent fliers.)
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Old Sep 18, 2019, 4:16 pm
  #1023  
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Posts: 8,757
Originally Posted by FFlash
This. Now thinking back, I remember the overwhelm of reports here from Lumo members how they called in to waitlist and noticed anywhere between hanging-up and 24 hours from the call that the upgrade request had cleared, so I became overwhelmed by that too. Now having upgraded 6 longhauls already as Lumo, all of them have gone to waitlist until T-37 and one rejected, I have a serious reason not to be happy...feeling not very Lumoutunut in finnish about this new superlevel
Be it official or not, in my opinion a Lumo's upgrade requests should always be honored, save for the case where J is already booked full. But if there is a seat available when the Lumo calls to upgrade, that seat should be his. Surely, in the long run, that's more profitable for AY than to sell that seat to some random Chinaman.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 12:57 am
  #1024  
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Join Date: May 2011
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Posts: 14,180
Loyalty management ≠ Revenue management

What makes sense to one can be a disaster to another. And it is not just about selleing revenue J. It is also about selling U - for several yeras there have been a drive to increase "ancillary revenue" and they have targets to reach to increase €/pax. A few years ago it was around 4-5€/pax. Now it is 12€/pax and the goal is higher than that IIRC.

We will have to see what this "new" capability of waitlisting online really means, but I remain on the sceptical side until there are clear evidence of a better availability
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 1:17 am
  #1025  
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Join Date: May 2011
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Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
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And rest assured upgrades are targeted as a new ancillary revenue. Below an excerpt from an interview in may 2018. Since then, they've increased the team by hiring a 'Head of New Ancillary Products',.
(My bolding)


Finnair won the FTE Ancillary Gold Award at last year’s FTE Ancillary event in Dublin, in recognition of its outstanding work in using technology to increase ancillary revenues. “We aim to make ancillaries available in all of our digital touchpoints,” explains Nevanlinna. “In the last year we have focused especially on IFE and the Finnair app and have just launched Sky Bistro ordering on the IFE system. Other milestones in the past 12 months include the launch of an onboard Duty Free catalogue on the IFE system and the introduction of personal ancillary recommendations on the Finnair website.”

Ancillary opportunities and goals



Sari Nevanlinna, Head of Ancillary Business, Customer Experience, Finnair, will speak in the FTE Ancillary conference, 6-8 June, Dublin.

“We are committed to developing and improving our ancillary offering and we are keen to work with partners who share our vision and drive for continuous development,” continues Nevanlinna. “There is still a lot of unrealised potential in inflight sales when it comes to digital inflight touchpoints. Customers want to tailor their travel experience and we need to make sure they can use the time onboard, for example, to book a taxi from the airport or reserve a business upgrade for their return flight.

...

“There are multiple trends we are following, including: the change in behaviour when it comes to access versus ownership, which might include purchasing access to items or exclusive intangible experiences instead of owning something; self-improvement and sustainable choices, with people becoming more interested in improving their physical and mental health, learning new skills, and doing their part in protecting our planet, possibly through the use of sustainable and healthy food or supporting local service providers; and personalisation in the post-demographic era, offering services to growing economies and recognising individual customer needs and providing options to cater for them.”

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Old Sep 19, 2019, 1:26 am
  #1026  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,043
As far as I observe it they fill up a lot of seats with upgrades on the routes I fly - so why not grant the upgrade request by Plats or Lumos in the first place. The whole system aims more for selling extra Y seats then for selling more J seats. At least it would be great that they gurantee if they upgrade their own status pax first - but they do this randomly.

If it comes down to ancillary revenue, at least upgrades with points should count towards this.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 2:25 am
  #1027  
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I agree, but I think the key here is they've assigned an entire department to increase ancillary revenue. I guess their targets are in €/pax and they are evaluated on this parameter and not much else. Meaning, they don't really care where the monies come from.

We see that in businesses all around, don't we?
Research shows there is money in a particular and new section of the market. Company reacts by setting up a branch to target those new monies - "let's get out share of that market" - and sets a goal in €. Manager A is in charge of old revenue with goal to protect old money. Manager B in charge of new revenue, with specific goal to increase it with x % yearly. Manager B doesn't really care if new revenue comes from truly new customers or if it comes from old customers converted to new stream. It all comes down to if A+B is evaluated together, or if each revenue stream is evaluated independently. You'd be surprised how often it isn't the case. Especially in legacy businesses where old money is threatened or in decline due to non-legacy operators disrupting with a business model the legacy operator can't apply. Underperformance of A is contributed the disruption, not because B is cannibalizing.

This is why I am not optimistic about the future for loyalty upgrades. If they can sell U, they will sell U, and that is what this waitlist strategy is about. Create a time-window for ancillary department to try to make new money.

I'd love to be proven wrong though. Let's see by october if waitlist is cleared quickly or always late in the game. (2 months out is still late in the game if you waitlisted at T-360)
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 3:15 am
  #1028  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,602
Originally Posted by intuition
And rest assured upgrades are targeted as a new ancillary revenue. Below an excerpt from an interview in may 2018. Since then, they've increased the team by hiring a 'Head of New Ancillary Products',.
(My bolding)
”Reserve business class upgrade on return flight” as ancillary target for elite payable benefit?????

Stupid to say such things without thinking. Very stupid to say so after thinking.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 3:42 am
  #1029  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: AY+ Lumo (LTG), LH SEN
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by FFlash
”Reserve business class upgrade on return flight” as ancillary target for elite payable benefit?????

Stupid to say such things without thinking. Very stupid to say so after thinking.
Where is that Interview? Someone seriously said that? That would certainly be the end of my loyalty if they happily grant only the outbound flight upgrade hoping to sell me the return upgrade.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 4:20 am
  #1030  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat (OWE), SK EBG (*A Gold), KQ Plat (STE+), Accor Plat
Posts: 3,157
Originally Posted by FlyeBye
Where is that Interview? Someone seriously said that? That would certainly be the end of my loyalty if they happily grant only the outbound flight upgrade hoping to sell me the return upgrade.
I think it's just a poor translation. What they meant to say was that they want to enable non-elites onboard to purchase an upgrade for their return flight.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 4:56 am
  #1031  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Helsinki
Programs: AY Platinum
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by lkrt
I think it's just a poor translation. What they meant to say was that they want to enable non-elites onboard to purchase an upgrade for their return flight.
I agree. The way I read it was them merely promoting the idea: "Hey Y passenger, how about upgrading your flight back home. Enjoy the super luxurious meals and carefully selected fine wines onboard your FRA-HEL flight for only EUR 170", which isn't anything new.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 5:14 am
  #1032  
Moderator, Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,180
Interview is here.

I agree she meant "Hey Y passenger, how about upgrading your flight back home. Enjoy the super luxurious meals and carefully selected fine wines onboard your FRA-HEL flight for only EUR 170".
Which isn't new per se, but they want to push in onto a larger crowd, apparently through the onboard portal or similar. New channels and new target group equals IMO a push for more revenue ie more seats to be sold. Hence my conclusion elites will have less upgrades clearing.

As far as bad translations goes, I hope not as she was a speaker at that ancillary revenue event in Dublin and hopefully commands the English language. But the article is full of quotes of what we in Sweden would call snömos. E.g. She intends to "glocailze" the product.

1990 called and wanted his buzzword back.

Last edited by intuition; Sep 19, 2019 at 5:19 am
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Old Sep 20, 2019, 2:10 pm
  #1033  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum (OWE), SK G(*G), BW Diamond
Posts: 810
Sorry guys/girls, it would seem that my recent upgrade request crashed the whole system, CS said they need to reboot and they would call back after that...that was 15mins ago so no quick recovery obviously
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Old Sep 20, 2019, 3:13 pm
  #1034  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,757
Originally Posted by Post Scriptum
Sorry guys/girls, it would seem that my recent upgrade request crashed the whole system, CS said they need to reboot and they would call back after that...that was 15mins ago so no quick recovery obviously
Okay, now you're banned from upgrades forever!
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Old Sep 23, 2019, 7:25 am
  #1035  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum (OWE), SK G(*G), BW Diamond
Posts: 810
Originally Posted by ffay005
Okay, now you're banned from upgrades forever!
Well, it would seem that maybe their upgrade engine took a vengeance on me. I have batch of upgrades pending in waitlist, in itienary with 2 plats, and so far still after 3 days no progress. J-loads on the flights are extremely thin (in total 3-4 seats sold in EF), so purely controlled supply in place. One just have to remember in awe about the 5X upgrade slam dunk on LAX-route during last year (when the upgrade availability was shown as 9 in Finnair website) and stay patient....however few soon-expiring vouchers cause bit of worry and maybe additional call to CS later this week (called today already).
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