asdf098

I ended up getting this sorted out (and safely home to JFK without ever stepping foot in a HiFly aircraft), but not before ~2 hrs of being in phone calls with AA/AY...

In the end, I was able to get an AA EXP agent to do a 3-way call with me and an AY agent, and transfer control of the ticket to AY, who was able to reroute on my desired flights. This all involved a lot of HUCA and being on hold, since there was confusion on both sides as to how the transfer of the ticket is supposed to happen, and lots of waiting as they checked with their superiors / head office on the policies that apply.

I ended up getting a new ticket issued by Finnair (105), just 3 hours before the scheduled departure of AY5. Fortunately I was able to get a 4pm departure, giving me a few extra hours to do some sightseeing in HEL (I was there on a weekend trip for one night). The final itinerary was AY HEL-LHR (issued in Y since no O inventory available) and AA LHR-JFK (as an AY codeshare).

Another minor win from all of this: I was able to get an AA agent at LHR to let me apply a SWU to the LHR-JFK flight (which I think is not supposed to be possible on a codeshare), which cleared within half an hour as it was a fairly empty J cabin

aama

I gave AA some feedback on handling this whole ordeal as the ticketing airline and got 5000 miles as compensation. Better than nothing I think.

Cofyknsult

Travelling in January on a AA Business Class Saver award, I expected no sympathy by AA trying to reroute my flight (CDG HEL JFK, strange routing booked precisely because none other was available), and indeed I got none.

My only hope is to invoke EC 261 against AY in case of cancellation or delay one minute beyond the deadline, and I shall do it at the first opportunity, homework done and with no room for the airline to argue or dither.

Before the opportunity arises, I am of course open to ANY rerouting at no additional charge within a 48 hrs window, either nonstop from CDG/ORY or via LHR/MAD, on AA,BA or IB.

Cofyknsult

Correct that... As I am fully allowed to cancel those inbound sectors for a full mileage and taxes refund without affecting the outbound (JFK CDG) I may do just that and try the new all Business Class airline LA COMPAGNIE (CDG EWR) which has RT promotions at $ 1,000 all-in, with One Way also available.

If I like them I may even stay with them

zerolife

Flight from NYC to Helsinki has been switched to HiFly plane & crew for operational reasons. I know HiFly business class is sub-standard. However how is their Economic class compared to Finnair's plane? Any chance to request a re-route on another OneWorld carrier? Finnair ticket but final destination is Warsaw so I don't have to fly through Helsinki.

mike_L

So, my flight JFK-HEL was indeed delayed by around 15 minutes without no weather or other uncontrollable issues. And I missed the connection flight to BUD at 9:30 am. I was put on the 5:10 PM and was provided meal voucher. I asked compensation under EU261, the agent told me to contact via the website.

I did and got a case #. It's around 4 days and I haven't heard back from AY, what now?

Cofyknsult

For delays of 15 minutes, EC 261 is wholly non-applicable. It actually seems that you were handled fairly well.

Cofyknsult

I have no idea whether Hi-Fly Y service is worse than AY's which is not that good to begin with. Food will be the same, as provided by AY's JFK caterer. The only ground , I think, to ask for a rerouting would be if the configuration were different (as in 9 abreast vs 8 or, hypothetically, 30" pitch vs 34 but AY does not provide 34".). This being said, ask if you feel like it, there is no downside. Good luck !

kauppias

The flight was delayed by 15min but they ended up missing their flight! So total delay was 8 hours or so... very much so in EU261 territory...


That said AY is propably THE worst airlines in the EU for paying out whats owed in EU261 compensation

Cofyknsult

If you do your homework right, get in advance the name and the claim form, usually downloadable, of the official organization in charge of implementing and monitoring EC 261 (there is a different one in each EU member country plus Switzerland)... if, at the same time that you complain to the airline BY REGISTERED MAIL, you send that organization BY REGISTERED MAIL your official claim on their official form AND you simultaneously send the airline a copy of your official claim,

THEN your claim will be honored in a cinch by the airline.

Do not forget that airlines found in default by the monitoring body are liable NOT ONLY for compensating the passenger BUT ALSO for a fine which is substantial AND enforced.

If you are flying regularly, you also can add the sweetener that you are willing, if the claim is resolved promptly, to take the compensation in the form of a travel voucher BUT that you will demand payment in cash if things linger on.

Try it... When your case is valid you will get compensated not only by EU airlines but also by airlines of non-member countries for flights departing from the EU... So far Aeroflot, Thai, Continental before its merger and Turkish.

Cofyknsult

If a 15 minute delay with no other intervening delay (such as in flight delay due to traffic, weather etc..., all factors not covered by EC 261) makes you miss your connection, then the likelihood is that the connecting time was not planned accurately or the MCT was disregarded or unrealistic. My own experience is that it is then far easier to get some compensation (miles, travel voucher...) from the airline responsible for it. Of course, if it is due to your travel agent's negligence, you are F****.

intuition

I hate to break your bubble, but the official organizations for handling these complaints have in a few EU countries been known to side with the airlines.
This has certainly been the case in at least Finland and Sweden.

Only recently, after several EU judgements pinpointing the term "extraordinary circumstances", have people been able to win in local courts, case trials paid by themselves and certainly not with the help of any consumer organization.

There is no such thing as EC261/2004 being honoured in a cinch by Finnair. Sadly.

intuition

This certainly is not EC261 compliance, and it is not anything you need to offer/threaten with. This is what the airline uses to offer/threaten you with.

mike_L

Thanks for the discussions. I am still in the middle of travel, I will download the forms and submit when I get home.

To clarify some confusions, my AY operated flights were:
AY6 arriving at 8:50 am, then connect to AY753 departing at 9:30 am, connection time at HEL was 40 minutes based on its own schedule.

I was offered AY755 departing at 17:10, around 8 hours later. I was provided a meal voucher and 2 bus tickets to/from the city.

Both legs were on the same ticket. It is a AY marketed flights. I was the first person who ran out of the aircraft. The agent just closed the door when I got to the gate and said that she's told to do so. I was also told that 3 other people from JFK also missed AY753.

ffay005

mike_L, it was a legal connection and AY is liable to pay you the EU compensation. You've filed the request, now just wait. If you don't hold status with AY, it's going to take a very long time (8–10 weeks, perhaps) for them to get back to you. They will reply with a "no" and some bulls***t explanation. After that, you file a complaint with the Comsumer Board.

No need to do anything else right now. Cofyknsult may have experience with other airlines, but with AY, his suggestions will hardly be of any help at this time.

I wonder if the BUD flight was overbooked by any chance. AY is known to wait (for a while) for incoming connections, and you weren't insanely late, so I'm a little surprised they denied you boarding.