ELAL FF Program Update...

Old Nov 11, 14, 12:41 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by EL AL Rep. View Post
You didn't mention the fact that if you use your FLY CARD credit card you will get more for your purchases:

For example: points given for NIS5000 expenses a month


FLY CARD PREMIUM holder: 26 points
FLY CARD holder: 20 points
NON fly card holder: 7 points in avg.

Needless to say , the more you use your FLY CARD credit card the more you get.

If you are using your FLY CARD for purchases in YOU stores you can get up to 40 points per purchase.

This would get you to you bonus ticket easier than ever.
Come on! Even assuming I'll earn 20 more points per month via flycard, then it's a huge devaluation. As I have said before, the flycard benefits were announced more than 3 months before this devaluation, and therefore should be considered separate from this announcement. The only reasons you are pushing them further now are to avoid showing these changes as a huge devaluation, which they are.
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Old Nov 11, 14, 2:13 pm
  #32  
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Liat I'm sorry but nothing you have copy-psated here could convince me (or anyone else here I would think) that this is anything else but a huge devaluation.

Yes, there might be additional new benefits for CC adopters but looking at the program and the new "enhancements", they do not outweigh the devaluations, and let's not forget that not everyone will or can or will be interested in the CC.

We were all looking forward to seeing what changes were coming hoping whatever they are would make the program better, but we really did not expect this.

I'm really sorry now that I've been converting my CC points to Matmid.

Of course none of this is your fault, but I hope you pass on the message (not that its going to change anything).
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Old Nov 12, 14, 4:01 am
  #33  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by ysmisc View Post
This is really bad
An example for NYC

A year ago flight to western Europe in Z was 200 base points plus 50% for PL you get 300 points.
NYC C class reward was 3000 so we get 3000/300= 10 flights

Now a flight to western Europe in Z is 150 base plus 70% for PL and Premium and thus you get 255 points.
NYC C class reward will be 4000 so we get 4000/255=15.69!!! flights

Did I miscalculate?
Originally Posted by EL AL Rep. View Post
It is important to add to the list of benefits to those who issue FLY CARD:
  • A very attractive conversion rate: NIS 250 = 1 Matmid point or NIS190=1 Matmid point if you issue FLY CARD PREMIUM- the most attractive conversion rate in Israel).
  • Special fares for bonus tickets (much more attractive in most destinations). EL AL will allocate more seats for bonus tickets
  • Pay part of the cost of flight tickets (purchased via EL AL's website) with points. For the first time you will also get points for that.
  • 50% discount on payment for one additional piece of baggage beyond the entitlement in Economy Class.
  • Earn points even faster on purchases from You Club shops.

FLY CARD PREMIUM holders will get even more benfits.

for more details :
FLY CARD:
http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer.../FLY-CARD.aspx

FLY CARD PREMIUM:
http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer...D-PREMIUM.aspx
Bottom line we can sugar coat it as much as we want. If my calculations are correct (and BTW I did these for many other routes as well) almost all C/F bonus tickets are now effectively 30-60% more expensive!!!
Yes it is easier to get to PL but how does it help me if I need to fly twice as much for a bonus ticket?
This is really bad.
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Old Nov 12, 14, 4:28 am
  #34  
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Liat, if you're pushing the FLY Card so much and saying how "special" it is, please let me know if there are ways of getting sign-up bonuses for it (you know, like every major airline does around the world, and even Miles&More does with their C.A.L. credit card in Israel) as well as fee waivers for the first year or so?
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Old Nov 12, 14, 4:58 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by gordo6 View Post
This option was part of flycard from the day it was launched and should not be considered a part of these changes, as they only apply 6 month afterwars and were announced afterwards. BTW, 20% of the "extra" points earned via the CC can be converted to base point. Meaning - 1 base point = 900 NIS (for flycard premium). And even as an owner of flycard plus a J flight to NYC will earn 216 base points (which, going by what you say is an an increase of 8%, however this 20% bonus also applies before the other changes and as such should not be considered a part of them despite what LY says) despite an increase of 33% in reward prices (3000 vs 4000). Overall this is an increase of 23.4% (=(4000/216)/(3000/200)).

So yes, status will be easier for me, but overall this is not an enhancement, but rather a disappointment, and I'll definitely reconsider my future with LY. It's a shame, as up until now I always thought that LY had a good value for rewards.
By the way, I think you misinterpreted the benfit of: "20% of the "extra" points earned via the CC can be converted to base point" :

As a FLY CARD Premium holder, up to 20% of the points you get for your purchases are being automatically considered a Basic Points.

For Example: if you are A GL member and you accumulated 1500 points for your purchases (CC points) , 300 of these points will be posted as Basic points and will be considered for upgrade to the next tier or for retaining your status.

These points would also be considered for Last Minute Upgrades.

If you evaluate all the benefits that are being given to FLY CARD holders (money wise) you would come to a conclusion that it would be easier to get/retain your premium status, use more points, enjoy special bonus fare, more options to use your points (both with partners and also if you purchase regular tickets on the where you can pay part of your ticket , significant part, with points!.

If you take the FLY CARD Premium you fet more benefits such as priority in Last minute Upgrades :

For Example: if you are a GL member and you are flying with another GL member who bought the same fare ticket , as a FLY CARD Premium holder you get priority over your friend even if he had accumulated more Basic points than you did.

I warmly suggest you will read the list of benefits of FLY CARD to understand their implications over your status and benefits. It really pays to be a FLY CARD holder.
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Old Nov 12, 14, 5:27 am
  #36  
Company Representative - El Al Airlines
 
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Originally Posted by joshwex90 View Post
Liat, if you're pushing the FLY Card so much and saying how "special" it is, please let me know if there are ways of getting sign-up bonuses for it (you know, like every major airline does around the world, and even Miles&More does with their C.A.L. credit card in Israel) as well as fee waivers for the first year or so?
You get sign up bonuses:

1. 50 gift points (Excluding FLY CARD PREMIUM of Bank Leumi)
2. If you take FLY CARD you get 15% discount for purchases in YOU stores (Mega Bul, YOU, Mega Bayir, Dor Alon Gas stations). Limited to purchases in NIS700. i.e NIS105

As to the fee waivers for the first year: We strongly believe in the product. it reallys pays, saves a lot money to its holders and expose them to so many benfits that the monthly fee becomes so marginal and insignificant.

BTW, most CC holders in Israel are paying a monthly fee of NIS12 as it is (soon will grow to NIS14), so the difference becomes even more insignificant especially if you evaluate the benefits you get as a FLY CARD holder.
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Old Nov 12, 14, 5:42 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by EL AL Rep. View Post
I warmly suggest you will read the list of benefits of FLY CARD to understand their implications over your status and benefits. It really pays to be a FLY CARD holder.
I have, and while there are some decreases in rates to some of the shorter european destination primarily in Economy, premium cabins are now more expensive to reedem into almost on every route than they were before even for card holders.

What you guys have done is seriously devalued the program, and then gone and tried to sweeten the pill buy saying card holders will have a few extra benefits, even though on the whole, they will still be paying more and earning less than before.
And let's face it, you are basically saying you don't give a monkey's about regular matmid members now that don't hold your CC.

Also, no one has mentioned this yet, but the whole scheme is now a huge mess and very difficult to understand, with various European destinations priced at different redemption rates despite belonging to the same region (why are LHR. AMS, FRA all priced differently?).

Furthermore, the differences between regular Matmid members (the ones you don't care about anymore) and the credit card holders makes no sense, with some destination (again in the same region) being cheaper by 100 points to CC holder, other 200 and some at 300.

It's all one big mess which makes no sense, and whoever it was that revamped the scheme for you guys should be fired.

In the past 24 hours I've spoken to 6 of my friends who are PL and TPLs, and they are furious.
Except for one that doesn't have a choice due to company policy (your saving grace) the others say this is the final straw for them.
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Old Nov 12, 14, 5:45 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by EL AL Rep. View Post
You get sign up bonuses:

1. 50 gift points (Excluding FLY CARD PREMIUM of Bank Leumi)
2. If you take FLY CARD you get 15% discount for purchases in YOU stores (Mega Bul, YOU, Mega Bayir, Dor Alon Gas stations). Limited to purchases in NIS700. i.e NIS105

As to the fee waivers for the first year: We strongly believe in the product. it reallys pays, saves a lot money to its holders and expose them to so many benfits that the monthly fee becomes so marginal and insignificant.

BTW, most CC holders in Israel are paying a monthly fee of NIS12 as it is (soon will grow to NIS14), so the difference becomes even more insignificant especially if you evaluate the benefits you get as a FLY CARD holder.
If you believe in it so strongly, why are you not willing to waive the fee to show the customer how great it is? You know, the way every other airline works around the world and even how major store cards work in Israel (think Shufersal, Rami Levi, etc.).
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Old Nov 12, 14, 5:59 am
  #39  
 
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"EL AL, Its not an airline, It's a Credit Card Company"
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Old Nov 12, 14, 6:22 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by damaxer91 View Post
"EL AL, Its not an airline, It's a Credit Card Company"
So very true now
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Old Nov 12, 14, 6:30 am
  #41  
Company Representative - El Al Airlines
 
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Originally Posted by damaxer91 View Post
What about for those of us in the US?
As of February 10, 2015 EL AL will launch the new EXECUTIVE circle for our loyal members living outside of Israel
http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer...rs-Circle.aspx
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Old Nov 12, 14, 6:51 am
  #42  
Company Representative - El Al Airlines
 
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Originally Posted by awayIgo View Post
This is all a joke. I am a lowly silver whose 2 trips ( with a point/$ upgrade to business) just earned me the 800 points to stay silver. Yes, right before HAAS Advantage "died" I did convert, so I guess I would be eligible for whatever. But, that doesn't take care of my new "downgraded" experience. I have faithfully been flying El Al for more years than I care to admit and I feel like I have been royally scr***d! I just got off the Delta Website and while the business will cost me more--it is a lot more comfortable. ie. 777 still has the crappy angled seat! It is going to take a lot to get me to stay with El Al. It is also real easy to get American Credit cards that give Delta points!

BUT a question. I have a ticket where I am hoping to upgrade with vouchers. I leave for Israel in Dec. but don't return until mid March. Will I still be able to voucher or has that disappeared and will by agent have to figure out some way to keep me in business?
ELAL is establishing new agreements with banks in the US. We are expecting to announce one of the agreements in the near future.
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Old Nov 12, 14, 7:18 am
  #43  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by EL AL Rep. View Post
ELAL is establishing new agreements with banks in the US. We are expecting to announce one of the agreements in the near future.
Well that goes to support the individual who is calling El Al a credit card company. Also, the credit card business in the US is very different than in Israel. When a person gets a card they have more to consider than just El Al points. Loads of cards offer points on other airlines and the cards are no charge. Many cards are also able to be used in Israel with no foreign transaction fees. If getting one of these cards means that instead of paying El Al ( or Delta) I pay the credit card company where am I ahead.

Also, Liat, your lack of answering or commenting on the rest of my questions tells me that my statements were accurate and you have nothing to say. I, like most others realize you do not make these decision, but I do hope you pass back to the powers that be how much they stink. When you have people like me who have always supported the airline....versus some of the others who really just come here to bash...what is that saying?
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Old Nov 12, 14, 7:28 am
  #44  
 
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I'm not sure why anyone here is surprised that the program got worse. It's just another example of poor LY management.
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Old Nov 12, 14, 8:24 am
  #45  
Company Representative - El Al Airlines
 
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Originally Posted by joshwex90 View Post
Liat, if you're pushing the FLY Card so much and saying how "special" it is, please let me know if there are ways of getting sign-up bonuses for it (you know, like every major airline does around the world, and even Miles&More does with their C.A.L. credit card in Israel) as well as fee waivers for the first year or so?
Hey,

The FLY CARD credit card offers many exclusive benefits in the credit, aviation and You Club domains. In a short time, cardholders more than cover the fee for the card, both in the aviation realm and in many stores.
In addition, a welcome gift of 50 points (worth $50) and a discount of 15% at Mega stores (up to a limit of NIS 700 = maximum discount of NIS 105) cover the cost of the first year of use. After the first year, with reasonable use of the card, you can earn enough points for a bonus ticket to a European destination, worth a lot more than the first year’s cost of the card (second year and on).

A few more examples:
· Preferential conversion rate – one point for every NIS 250 spent with the card

· Reduced price bonus tickets

· 50% discount on excess baggage

· This is the only credit card in Israel that allows point accrual on payments of taxes and utilities, such as municipal taxes, water and electricity
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