ELAL FF Program Update...

Old Nov 13, 14, 2:13 am
  #61  
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Originally Posted by awayIgo View Post
I do two round trips a year, that gave me 800 points to stay silver. I will now only get 640 points a year for the same trips. I am also unable to ascertain if I will be able to do any upgrades. I am a "common person" ( in your insulting language) and this change is horrendous!
Only way I can see 2 r/ts a year netting 800 points would be by flying flex Y tickets to long-range destinations (except LAX) or cheap C to NY/Toronto or mid-range C to Europe.

That's not the "common flyer" who flies cheapo Y once or twice a year.
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Old Nov 13, 14, 3:42 am
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Liat, you might want to check your facts (or the claims your superiors have asked you to make...) as this is definitely not true.
This is the main reason I was going to apply for this card. Should I be applying for another one?
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Old Nov 13, 14, 6:11 am
  #63  
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Originally Posted by joshwex90 View Post
Maybe ever since the FLY Card was introduced, you can no longer accrue points in Matmid for these types of payments?
Hey Josh,
No Credit card in Israel allowed accrual of Matmid points for state institutions payment, even before the FLY CARD was introduced.
For FLY CARD holders only: the conversion rate for transactions with state institutions is NIS 500 = 1 Matmid point
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Old Nov 13, 14, 6:12 am
  #64  
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Originally Posted by simba8 View Post
Hi Liat,
thanks for taking the time to respond.
In terms non-Israel based customers, how many (a) countries/ (b)credit card programs allow a transfer from their program to Matmid to meet the criteria of
least 100 points from credit cards that are non-Israeli for this "executive members circle"?

I cant recall any in Canada...and nothing comes to mind for Europe.
EL AL will consider the extension of conversion agreements with credit card companies in Canada and Europe.
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Old Nov 13, 14, 6:15 am
  #65  
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Originally Posted by gordo6 View Post
Although poorly worded, I understood it just fine. I also understand that your job is to show LY on a positive note and show this as an enhancement rather than a devaluation, but it doesn't change the fact that it is not just a devaluation, but a huge one.
Liat, I'm hopeful that you understand why I'm disappointed. I'll be more than happy to write my full opinion and send it to you via mail. If you (and hopefully the LY management) are interested in hearing my opinion, please PM me an email address (or mailing address) of an executive in the Matmid department to which I'll be able to send my full, detailed opinion, backed with numbers. I'm hopeful that you'll be able to provide me with such a contact information. It will, hopefully, allow me to get in touch with those who made these decision and be able to explain it to them from mine (and many others) perspective.

However, I'm not too hopeful. This is LY, I know...
I think that it is best you contact [email protected] on that matter, she knows better than me
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Old Nov 13, 14, 6:15 am
  #66  
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Originally Posted by entropy View Post
banks? plural? You guys don't seem to get it. One bank, one issuer, and have a solid program. From what I can tell, you have "Fly Card" arrangements with a gazillion different Israeli banks. United = Chase, AA=Citi, AS=BofA, DL =AX. And those are real airlines.

And none of your US competitors expire points 3 years after earning them, only if there's no activity in the account.
The validity of all points from partners has been shortened to 3 years, like the points that are converted from the FLY CARD.. Nevertheless, EXECUTIVE members reach a bonus ticket faster!! Therefore the risk of losing points is smaller. In addition, EXECUTIVE members have more options for using the accrued points, for example: the "money+points" product, it is possible to determine the number of points to be used for receiving a discount on any ticket price published on our website..
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Old Nov 13, 14, 7:23 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by EL AL Rep. View Post
No Credit card in Israel allowed accrual of Matmid points for state institutions payment, even before the FLY CARD was introduced.
Liat, you seem to systematically ignore my posts here.

What you are claiming is untrue and misleading.
Amex have always and still do (albeit at a worse rate) allow accrual of points for utility bills etc.

Please check your facts and let us know...

Thanks.
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Old Nov 13, 14, 7:57 am
  #68  
 
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Liat - whilst we all recognise you are not responsible for the changes, could I suggest that when dealing with an intelligent community of frequent flyers you must adopt an approach of openness about changes that impact us. If I were you I would have said that the changes will not be liked by all, will not work for all, but were necessary from a business perspective and do provide some benefits that will work for some people. From there on it's vitally important to also be 100% factual and the claim that no cards offered matmid points for governmental payments is simply incorrect.
Another point I would make is that whilst many airlines have devalued their programs over time they usually have not done so to such a brutal extent, particularly the cut in accrual and increase in redemption rates. The antiquated approach of points expiring after 3 years was bad enough when it concerned base and extra points, but now you have extended that to partner points too. Most airlines I know simply require regular activity for points to remain valid forever and I think that is much more reasonable and honest. You say that people will accrue quicker so will be able to buy bonus tickets faster. This is both factually incorrect because accrual rates have been hit and fails to account for personal circumstances. Some people may travel regularly for business but for personal reasons may not be able to go on holiday for example. It could be health reasons or other personal circumstances but the bottom line is that Elal no longer allows anyone to accrue points for the long term, maybe for retirement or for a special trip once every few years.
Simply put, LY is so bad at understanding its customers (at least from my experience) that it appears to have no idea how to build a successful loyalty program. It's a real shame that LY cannot find well informed and experienced marketing people to get the job done properly.
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Old Nov 13, 14, 8:00 am
  #69  
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The validity of all points from partners has been shortened to 3 years, like the points that are converted from the FLY CARD.. Nevertheless, EXECUTIVE members reach a bonus ticket faster!! Therefore the risk of losing points is smaller.
What is this? Eretz Nehederet?

Its a devaulation, plain and simple.
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Old Nov 13, 14, 9:31 am
  #70  
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Originally Posted by EL AL Rep. View Post
The validity of all points from partners has been shortened to 3 years, like the points that are converted from the FLY CARD.. Nevertheless, EXECUTIVE members reach a bonus ticket faster!! Therefore the risk of losing points is smaller
You are assuming people tend to use their points the moment they have accumulated enough for a bonus ticket, which is in most cases far from the truth, so I'm afraid the above is just a further attempt by you guys to sugarcoat the "enhancements".

While I'm not saying there might not be other FF out there with a similar policy, I'm certainly not familiar with any.
It's one thing requiring account activity during a 3 years period to stop miles/points expiring but your policy is simply unfair.
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Old Nov 13, 14, 9:32 am
  #71  
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Originally Posted by entropy View Post
What is this? Eretz Nehederet?
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Old Nov 13, 14, 9:33 am
  #72  
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Originally Posted by economyman View Post
Liat - whilst we all recognise you are not responsible for the changes, could I suggest that when dealing with an intelligent community of frequent flyers you must adopt an approach of openness about changes that impact us...
Not going to quote your entire thread economyman, but very well said (all of it).
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Old Nov 13, 14, 10:33 am
  #73  
 
Join Date: May 2007
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my math

I dont post very often but I do log on to read from time to time. The latest devaluation is causing me to completely re-evaluate my loyalty. As a US based 15 year TPL who pre-upgrades using points every flight from Y to C this new program is going to add almost 1000 points for every R/T.

As someone who was burned by the HAS / LY blowup and who cannot get an Israeli CC, I cannot think of any better way to be rewarded for my loyalty.
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Old Nov 13, 14, 10:59 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by steffa View Post
I dont post very often but I do log on to read from time to time. The latest devaluation is causing me to completely re-evaluate my loyalty. As a US based 15 year TPL who pre-upgrades using points every flight from Y to C this new program is going to add almost 1000 points for every R/T.

As someone who was burned by the HAS / LY blowup and who cannot get an Israeli CC, I cannot think of any better way to be rewarded for my loyalty.
I don't understand... What 1000 points for every RT? Unless you are regarding the difference in reward prices, I don't understand what you meant in your post at all...
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Old Nov 13, 14, 11:14 am
  #75  
 
Join Date: May 2007
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Indeed that is what I am referring to. As I said I pre-upgrade every flight. My earning will go down by approximately 10% and my reward cost increases by 50% percent, totalling 956 points more every trip
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