ELAL FF Program Update...
Nov 13, 14, 2:13 am
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,112
Originally Posted by awayIgo
I do two round trips a year, that gave me 800 points to stay silver. I will now only get 640 points a year for the same trips. I am also unable to ascertain if I will be able to do any upgrades. I am a "common person" ( in your insulting language) and this change is horrendous!
That's not the "common flyer" who flies cheapo Y once or twice a year.
Nov 13, 14, 3:42 am
#62
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: TLV
Programs: UA Platinum, Avis Chairman, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, GA Pilot
Posts: 3,206
Originally Posted by clubman
Liat, you might want to check your facts (or the claims your superiors have asked you to make...) as this is definitely not true.
Nov 13, 14, 6:11 am
#63
Company Representative - El Al Airlines
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by joshwex90
Maybe ever since the FLY Card was introduced, you can no longer accrue points in Matmid for these types of payments?
No Credit card in Israel allowed accrual of Matmid points for state institutions payment, even before the FLY CARD was introduced.
For FLY CARD holders only: the conversion rate for transactions with state institutions is NIS 500 = 1 Matmid point
Nov 13, 14, 6:12 am
#64
Company Representative - El Al Airlines
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by simba8
Hi Liat,
thanks for taking the time to respond.
In terms non-Israel based customers, how many (a) countries/ (b)credit card programs allow a transfer from their program to Matmid to meet the criteria of
least 100 points from credit cards that are non-Israeli for this "executive members circle"?
I cant recall any in Canada...and nothing comes to mind for Europe.
thanks for taking the time to respond.
In terms non-Israel based customers, how many (a) countries/ (b)credit card programs allow a transfer from their program to Matmid to meet the criteria of
least 100 points from credit cards that are non-Israeli for this "executive members circle"?
I cant recall any in Canada...and nothing comes to mind for Europe.
Nov 13, 14, 6:15 am
#65
Company Representative - El Al Airlines
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by gordo6
Although poorly worded, I understood it just fine. I also understand that your job is to show LY on a positive note and show this as an enhancement rather than a devaluation, but it doesn't change the fact that it is not just a devaluation, but a huge one.
Liat, I'm hopeful that you understand why I'm disappointed. I'll be more than happy to write my full opinion and send it to you via mail. If you (and hopefully the LY management) are interested in hearing my opinion, please PM me an email address (or mailing address) of an executive in the Matmid department to which I'll be able to send my full, detailed opinion, backed with numbers. I'm hopeful that you'll be able to provide me with such a contact information. It will, hopefully, allow me to get in touch with those who made these decision and be able to explain it to them from mine (and many others) perspective.
However, I'm not too hopeful. This is LY, I know...
Liat, I'm hopeful that you understand why I'm disappointed. I'll be more than happy to write my full opinion and send it to you via mail. If you (and hopefully the LY management) are interested in hearing my opinion, please PM me an email address (or mailing address) of an executive in the Matmid department to which I'll be able to send my full, detailed opinion, backed with numbers. I'm hopeful that you'll be able to provide me with such a contact information. It will, hopefully, allow me to get in touch with those who made these decision and be able to explain it to them from mine (and many others) perspective.
However, I'm not too hopeful. This is LY, I know...
Nov 13, 14, 6:15 am
#66
Company Representative - El Al Airlines
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by entropy
banks? plural? You guys don't seem to get it. One bank, one issuer, and have a solid program. From what I can tell, you have "Fly Card" arrangements with a gazillion different Israeli banks. United = Chase, AA=Citi, AS=BofA, DL =AX. And those are real airlines.
And none of your US competitors expire points 3 years after earning them, only if there's no activity in the account.
And none of your US competitors expire points 3 years after earning them, only if there's no activity in the account.
Nov 13, 14, 7:23 am
#67
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,915
Originally Posted by EL AL Rep.
No Credit card in Israel allowed accrual of Matmid points for state institutions payment, even before the FLY CARD was introduced.
What you are claiming is untrue and misleading.
Amex have always and still do (albeit at a worse rate) allow accrual of points for utility bills etc.
Please check your facts and let us know...
Thanks.
Nov 13, 14, 7:57 am
#68
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Israel (some of the time)
Programs: BA GGL, CCR; AF/KLM FB Silver; M&M LH FTL; LY GLD; HH Diamond; SPG Gold; A-Club Silver; Avis PCI
Posts: 2,054
Liat - whilst we all recognise you are not responsible for the changes, could I suggest that when dealing with an intelligent community of frequent flyers you must adopt an approach of openness about changes that impact us. If I were you I would have said that the changes will not be liked by all, will not work for all, but were necessary from a business perspective and do provide some benefits that will work for some people. From there on it's vitally important to also be 100% factual and the claim that no cards offered matmid points for governmental payments is simply incorrect.
Another point I would make is that whilst many airlines have devalued their programs over time they usually have not done so to such a brutal extent, particularly the cut in accrual and increase in redemption rates. The antiquated approach of points expiring after 3 years was bad enough when it concerned base and extra points, but now you have extended that to partner points too. Most airlines I know simply require regular activity for points to remain valid forever and I think that is much more reasonable and honest. You say that people will accrue quicker so will be able to buy bonus tickets faster. This is both factually incorrect because accrual rates have been hit and fails to account for personal circumstances. Some people may travel regularly for business but for personal reasons may not be able to go on holiday for example. It could be health reasons or other personal circumstances but the bottom line is that Elal no longer allows anyone to accrue points for the long term, maybe for retirement or for a special trip once every few years.
Simply put, LY is so bad at understanding its customers (at least from my experience) that it appears to have no idea how to build a successful loyalty program. It's a real shame that LY cannot find well informed and experienced marketing people to get the job done properly.
Another point I would make is that whilst many airlines have devalued their programs over time they usually have not done so to such a brutal extent, particularly the cut in accrual and increase in redemption rates. The antiquated approach of points expiring after 3 years was bad enough when it concerned base and extra points, but now you have extended that to partner points too. Most airlines I know simply require regular activity for points to remain valid forever and I think that is much more reasonable and honest. You say that people will accrue quicker so will be able to buy bonus tickets faster. This is both factually incorrect because accrual rates have been hit and fails to account for personal circumstances. Some people may travel regularly for business but for personal reasons may not be able to go on holiday for example. It could be health reasons or other personal circumstances but the bottom line is that Elal no longer allows anyone to accrue points for the long term, maybe for retirement or for a special trip once every few years.
Simply put, LY is so bad at understanding its customers (at least from my experience) that it appears to have no idea how to build a successful loyalty program. It's a real shame that LY cannot find well informed and experienced marketing people to get the job done properly.
Nov 13, 14, 8:00 am
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,487
The validity of all points from partners has been shortened to 3 years, like the points that are converted from the FLY CARD.. Nevertheless, EXECUTIVE members reach a bonus ticket faster!! Therefore the risk of losing points is smaller.
Its a devaulation, plain and simple.
Nov 13, 14, 9:31 am
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,915
Originally Posted by EL AL Rep.
The validity of all points from partners has been shortened to 3 years, like the points that are converted from the FLY CARD.. Nevertheless, EXECUTIVE members reach a bonus ticket faster!! Therefore the risk of losing points is smaller
While I'm not saying there might not be other FF out there with a similar policy, I'm certainly not familiar with any.
It's one thing requiring account activity during a 3 years period to stop miles/points expiring but your policy is simply unfair.
Nov 13, 14, 9:33 am
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,915
Originally Posted by economyman
Liat - whilst we all recognise you are not responsible for the changes, could I suggest that when dealing with an intelligent community of frequent flyers you must adopt an approach of openness about changes that impact us...
Nov 13, 14, 10:33 am
#73
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 46
my math
I dont post very often but I do log on to read from time to time. The latest devaluation is causing me to completely re-evaluate my loyalty. As a US based 15 year TPL who pre-upgrades using points every flight from Y to C this new program is going to add almost 1000 points for every R/T.
As someone who was burned by the HAS / LY blowup and who cannot get an Israeli CC, I cannot think of any better way to be rewarded for my loyalty.
As someone who was burned by the HAS / LY blowup and who cannot get an Israeli CC, I cannot think of any better way to be rewarded for my loyalty.
Nov 13, 14, 10:59 am
#74
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 22KM from TLV airport Terminal 3
Programs: LY Gold; BA Silver;
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by steffa
I dont post very often but I do log on to read from time to time. The latest devaluation is causing me to completely re-evaluate my loyalty. As a US based 15 year TPL who pre-upgrades using points every flight from Y to C this new program is going to add almost 1000 points for every R/T.
As someone who was burned by the HAS / LY blowup and who cannot get an Israeli CC, I cannot think of any better way to be rewarded for my loyalty.
As someone who was burned by the HAS / LY blowup and who cannot get an Israeli CC, I cannot think of any better way to be rewarded for my loyalty.
