Delta Continues to Adjust to Unprecedented Fuel Costs with Addition of Fuel Surcharge
Jun 27, 2008, 11:20 am
#136
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The circumstances, as well as terms and conditions, were different. Until someone successfully pursues legal action against DL on this, or any of the thousands of other issues legal action has previously been threatened on, I'm going to forgo further discussion on this particular topic.
An "improper and unequal comparison" is not an applicable characterization to what I mentioned, especially as the mentioned item involved an airline, a frequent flyer program, changes to a frequent flyer program, and the airline's attempt to hide behind the terms and conditions in trying to defend itself from consumers asserting their legal rights in the face of airline unilterally making adjustments to the FFP.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:21 am
#137
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Jun 27, 2008, 11:23 am
#138
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To my knowledge, no current frequent flier program has ever explicitly qualified the duration of redemption options or thresholds.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:26 am
#139
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Can't recall or conduct a proper search? I'm not paid to make DL's case for DL any longer, nor to undermine my own interests or the interest of like-minded consumers.
DL made changes after the specific item was raised here about its unlawful nature.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:28 am
#141
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We've already discussed this matter. Do a search if you need your memory refreshed and really care to do anything beside call "bluff" to a non-bluff.
Can't recall or conduct a proper search? I'm not paid to make DL's case for DL any longer, nor to undermine my own interests or the interest of like-minded consumers.
DL made changes after the specific item was raised here about its unlawful nature.
Can't recall or conduct a proper search? I'm not paid to make DL's case for DL any longer, nor to undermine my own interests or the interest of like-minded consumers.
DL made changes after the specific item was raised here about its unlawful nature.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:31 am
#142
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I also suggest a little more awareness about the history of Alitalia's program.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:31 am
#143
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
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Another "enhancement". Sigh.
So, here's the real questions: DL makes a schedule change that requires a reissue. Or DL makes a schedule change that forces you to get 'em to change to other flights (say, connections that don't work any more).
Will the new fee be assessed or waived on the forced reissue? My bet is that they'll try and assess. And it will be convenient for them to reset schedules that force reissues.
I'm already there. I've got lifetime Gold status on DL. I lost my PM a couple of years ago for the first time (I was in whatever was the top tier since I joined the program in the 80's). I regained it last year, just barely, due to a lot of flying on several airlines. I also qualified for AA Plat.... and WN "A-List", meaning I spread the business around instead of staying intensely loyal. I'd love to stay loyal to DL, but with the "enhancements", fees, lack of availability, booking restrictions, etc, Skymiles just isn't that great. I still remember when DL didn't charge the higher UK departure fees through on upgrades.
And none of the others are any better.
The airlines continue to devalue programs, and it just makes flying a commodity business. They bring it upon themselves.
FWIW, the WSJ article today (Link, requires subscription) speculates that there will be further devaluations.
I gotta fly anyway, but mileage runs are in my past given the current fee and surcharge environment. As long as I've gotta fly anyway, I'll bank miles, but no longer is airline/alliance one of the first things I look to.
Flying WN so much last year really opened my eyes to how unsatisfying the legacies are. It really is a lot simpler, and it really is a nicer experience when you can get a non-stop instead of going through hel..(er).. Atlanta, ORD, or DFW.
Will the new fee be assessed or waived on the forced reissue? My bet is that they'll try and assess. And it will be convenient for them to reset schedules that force reissues.
I hope you do not mind, humanoid94, but I quoted you here.
What you said is powerful, and I believe that other FlyerTalk members need to discuss this.
I am seriously rethinking my participation in frequent flier programs. I am not certain that going through the time and trouble to maintain status is worth the cost now that the value of frequent flier programs in general are becoming more and more diluted.
What you said is powerful, and I believe that other FlyerTalk members need to discuss this.
I am seriously rethinking my participation in frequent flier programs. I am not certain that going through the time and trouble to maintain status is worth the cost now that the value of frequent flier programs in general are becoming more and more diluted.
And none of the others are any better.
The airlines continue to devalue programs, and it just makes flying a commodity business. They bring it upon themselves.
FWIW, the WSJ article today (Link, requires subscription) speculates that there will be further devaluations.
Originally Posted by WSJ
In April, Julius Maldutis, president of consulting firm Aviation Dynamics and a veteran industry analyst, predicted that one of the first perks to get hit would be frequent-flier programs.
....................
Also in April, travel experts said Delta's frequent-flier programs likely would see changes including a possible devaluation of some passenger miles amid the company's pending merger with Northwest Airlines Corp.
....................
Also in April, travel experts said Delta's frequent-flier programs likely would see changes including a possible devaluation of some passenger miles amid the company's pending merger with Northwest Airlines Corp.
It's only just begun. Fuel prices will drop, and when they do the legacies will be scrambling to regain the customers who've discovered the simple life flying LCC's. By then, WN probably will be the #1 domestic airline.
As long as DL/NW continue to show some restraint in what the do (and frankly, $25-50 more for an award ticket is pretty restrained given current conditions), they will have a running start when things recover. US & maybe UA will be history.
We were both down to almost zero miles, but we just can't get out of the habit of earning more.
We're flying 3 200K itins this year & they still pile up.
As long as DL/NW continue to show some restraint in what the do (and frankly, $25-50 more for an award ticket is pretty restrained given current conditions), they will have a running start when things recover. US & maybe UA will be history.
We were both down to almost zero miles, but we just can't get out of the habit of earning more.
We're flying 3 200K itins this year & they still pile up.Flying WN so much last year really opened my eyes to how unsatisfying the legacies are. It really is a lot simpler, and it really is a nicer experience when you can get a non-stop instead of going through hel..(er).. Atlanta, ORD, or DFW.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:33 am
#144
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We've already had this discussion before.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:34 am
#145
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A couple of quick examples:
https://www.delta.com/help/faqs/awar...x.jsp#transfer
How do I transfer my award to someone else?
At the time reservations are made, the member may designate that the free ticket be issued in the name of another person.
At the time reservations are made, the member may designate that the free ticket be issued in the name of another person.
And even where they have an *, they still don't say they can include any and all fees they want:
the incentive of free* travel
*Taxes/Fees: Award tickets do not include a September 11th Security Fee of up to USD10.00 round-trip for tickets issued after September 30, 2003, or for international travel, U.S. Customs fee of USD5.00, APHIS fee of USD3.10, INS fee of USD7.00, or foreign user, inspection, customs, security or other similarly based charges, fees or taxes of up to USD250, depending on itinerary. Canada taxes are not included and may fluctuate based on Banker's Selling Rate on the day the tickets are issued. These taxes and fees are the responsibility of the passenger and must be paid at the time of ticketing.
*Taxes/Fees: Award tickets do not include a September 11th Security Fee of up to USD10.00 round-trip for tickets issued after September 30, 2003, or for international travel, U.S. Customs fee of USD5.00, APHIS fee of USD3.10, INS fee of USD7.00, or foreign user, inspection, customs, security or other similarly based charges, fees or taxes of up to USD250, depending on itinerary. Canada taxes are not included and may fluctuate based on Banker's Selling Rate on the day the tickets are issued. These taxes and fees are the responsibility of the passenger and must be paid at the time of ticketing.
Then there's the e-mails, the signs, on-hold messages, employee statements, connotation of "award", etc.
And then add that to all of their partners' advertisements (Amex, for example).
Jun 27, 2008, 11:34 am
#146
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It'll be nice if 90% of real world stop earning and spending their points. We'll have a whole lot more award seats open up.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:37 am
#147
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If the only ticket being changed is one that is being changed due to an involuntary situation for the customer that was forced upon the customer by the airline, then I'm pretty sure that it won't be too hard for DL to not assess the customer new taxes, fees and surcharges. However, if you have other DL award tickets that need changing, then my bet is that most such customers will get hit by this new revenue collection opportunity for Delta.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:40 am
#148
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For how many more years are you counting on SQ F being a redemption opportunity for DL SkyMiles members?
90% of the real world doesn't earn and spend FFP points/miles, so I don't know how they are going to stop earning and spending their FFP points/miles when they never had them in the first place.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:43 am
#150
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If the only ticket being changed is one that is being changed due to an involuntary situation for the customer that was forced upon the customer by the airline, then I'm pretty sure that it won't be too hard for DL to not assess the customer new taxes, fees and surcharges. However, if you have other DL award tickets that need changing, then my bet is that most such customers will get hit by this new revenue collection opportunity for Delta.