kop84

How about the dog gets the seat and the owner has to ride in the kennel

jdrtravel

From a legal perspective I think this is absolutely true. The dog's status as an ESA would not prevent someone from seeking damages from the owner for an injury.

PTravel

According to the reporter on the video at the posted link, the dog had been growling at the victim who asked three times whether the dog was going to bite him.

To me, the solution is simple: either ESAs receive the same training as service dogs, or they be banned completely. Virtually all jurisdictions require that dogs in public be leashed, and that's specifically to preclude unprovoked attacks like this. A leash requirement wouldn't help in the close confines of the passenger cabin of a commercial aircraft. No one should have to board an aircraft knowing they are exposed to the risk of an animal attack.

The ACA has provisions under which an airline can ban an ESA, including if the animal cannot be carried safely in the passenger cabin. A growling dog constitutes an obvious risk and Delta bears both responsibility and liability. Though I feel bad for the veteran, he, too, is liable. Given the clear signs that the animal was hostile, and Delta's failure to address it before the attack, I would treat it as an intentional tort or, at best, gross negligence on the part of Delta (and the veteran, too). I look forward to reading reports of the lawsuit as it progresses.

Incidentally, I love dogs. However, this situation is inexcusable.

jdrtravel

Agree to all of this. The training is hard. That would require setting up a national certifying organization that is recognized by the airlines and all other interested parties. No small task. Personally I think the if the dog can't fit under the seat in front of you that the pax should be required to purchase a second seat (perhaps to be refunded if the flight does not sell out like is done with passengers of size). Just having more space would be helpful. I could also see requiring muzzles for dogs that don't fit in a carrier under the seat.

MSPeconomist

It depends on the nature of the emotional support it provides and the nature of the psychiatric disorder. If the dog helps someone to sleep at night, it can just as easily ride in cargo, for example (provided that the airline doesn't lose the animal or send it on a circuitous route so that the beast arrives a day or more late, as UA did recently to a pet puppy being shipped through its PetSafe program).

BTW, if a human passenger growled, some flight crews would immediately call for law enforcement to escort the person off the flight or even do a diversion to deplane that person.

PTravel

A good friend of mine has a dog that is certified as a therapy dog. I don't know much about what the certification process entails, but I know that this is a very sweet, extremely well-trained and well-behaved dog (and a rather large Australian Ridgeback!). My friend is a licensed masseuse and yoga instructor and takes the dog with her to facilities for the elderly, where the dog contributes to the mental well-being of residents, while my friend sees to their physical well-being. Apparently, the training for the dog to receive certification was fairly intensive and required testing by the certifying organization to ensure that the dog could safely be around people, including those with diminished capacity, and offer appropriate attention and affection.

Sounds to me an awful lot like the support that an ESA is supposed to provide. If my friend's dog can get this kind of certification, so can the so-called ESAs.

gooselee

Or, the fake ESAs will NOT be able to get the certification (because they are not properly trained/dispositioned), which would exactly be the point.

I love dogs. Have had several, will have several more. But I know both their limits and my own, and in no way would I ever imagine that they could reliably and consistently behave in a way that would be considered a meaningful service (unless fertilizing the mushrooms in my yard counts).

I couldn't help it:

Billiken

Completely agree.
The owner and DL are both to blame.

One news story mentioned the owner was crying over the prospect of the animal being killed (not over what happened to the innocent human being?).
Sheesh...

pvn

Currently there's no such thing as a "fake" ESA.

SeaHawg

True. A "service animal" should be the standard when flying- especially after a few incidents such as what happened this weekend.

Loophole for ESA or any other derivative is way too large imo.

lking

I've just read this article about the dog mauling in Atlanta on Saturday. I've only seen or heard about this from Flyertalk. I would be very concerned about the control Delta has over the news networks. I have not seen anything or heard anything about this from any news networks in Atlanta, not even from Fox5newsAtlanta.com. And... I am in Atlanta!

Of course I could have missed it, but one would think this would be big news.

MSPeconomist

That loophole just became a bite hole and might morph further into a sinkhole.

If a dog growls at you, is there a right to a seat change or even a rebooking to a later flight? Is sounds like the dog was also invading the victim's space as there really isn't room for a large dog on aircraft, so do the passenger of size rules apply?

Especially if someone is afraid of dogs, it would be a long and uncomfortable flight even without the growling and biting.

PTravel

If a dog growled at me, I would insist it and its owner be removed, or I would treat it as an IDB.

If I were seated next to a 50 pound dog, particularly if I were in the window seat, I would insist that it and its owner be removed, as it would present an evacuation obstacle, even if it were the most gentle and friendly dog in the universe.

The ACA precludes ANY animal, service or ESA, from intruding into another passenger's space. I would have some tolerance for a true service animal, particularly if it were a relatively short flight, but none for an ESA. I would insist that the animal and its owner be removed, and would respond as I would with a COS who intruded significantly into my space.

This is a real concern for my wife, who is cat-phobic. Fortunately, it's not been an issue for us yet.

MSPeconomist

Good luck getting a FA to enforce the rules when the passenger seated next to you removes a "cute" cat from its carrier and holds it during the flight.

PTravel

Exactly. If that would happen, my wife would have a full-blown panic attack. At that point, I'd ask the cat owner nicely to re-cage the animal. If that didn't work, I'd speak to the FA. If THAT didn't work, I'd tell the FA to ask the pilot to divert. And, no, I'm not exaggerating. I'm not going to allow my wife to be subjected to a significant psychological trauma because some idiot wants to play with Fluffy in the cabin. However, as I said, fortunately, it has not yet been a problem.