Rumor: 747 B/E seat reduction
Apr 4, 2014, 8:02 am
#151
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Everybody still happy with those Global Upgrade certs? First the 777 BE seat reduction, but worse is this massive 747 BE seat reduction. Pretty obvious where this is headed... DL only wants J/C/D fare pax in those seats. If you're a budget conscious BE flyer, then now you get a claustrophobic seat upstairs instead since you will be priced out. By reducing seats, it will reduce or eliminate Z/I fares and with it the availability to use your upgrade cert.
Either way, we're looking at BE dropping down to ~8% from current ~12% and ending up bring worst in the fleet, converting the 747 from a plane many love to one to avoid.
Even after the 'downgrade', the 777 has 291 pax, 37/36/218 for 12.7% BE.
Current config:
376 pax, 12.7% BE
48/42/286
Possible new configs:
404 pax, 8.4% BE
34/84/286 (upstairs 42EC)
412 pax, 8.3% BE
34/42/336 (upstairs 50Y-)
Either way, we're looking at BE dropping down to ~8% from current ~12% and ending up bring worst in the fleet, converting the 747 from a plane many love to one to avoid.
Even after the 'downgrade', the 777 has 291 pax, 37/36/218 for 12.7% BE.
Current config:
376 pax, 12.7% BE
48/42/286
Possible new configs:
404 pax, 8.4% BE
34/84/286 (upstairs 42EC)
412 pax, 8.3% BE
34/42/336 (upstairs 50Y-)
Last edited by rylan; Apr 4, 2014 at 8:33 am
Apr 4, 2014, 8:09 am
#152
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,679
I suspected that this would be the case when the RFC for widebodies went out. I'm hoping they retain a few 744s for charter and IROP use as NW did with the 742s. Putting Y seats in the upper cabin makes a lot of sense if you want to get some charter use out of the plane.
Apr 4, 2014, 9:07 am
#153
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Delta has said nothing that I know of to pilots about retaining any 747s for charter use. And regardless, the mod could take place THEN, not now. Not to mention retaining an expensive pilot category that would not be overly productive is counter to the current M.O. of increasing profits wherever they can. JMHO
Apr 4, 2014, 9:12 am
#154
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I'd also like to add that....as a customer who mostly travels in EC on international routes and only occasionally in BE, I would not be at all happy about having EC moved upstairs in a 3x3 configuration. Would EC be removed from the lower deck entirely?
I would not consider this kind of configuration to be at all deserving of the word "comfort." Rather, it would be like traveling in a CRJ 200 for 12 hours.
I would not consider this kind of configuration to be at all deserving of the word "comfort." Rather, it would be like traveling in a CRJ 200 for 12 hours.
Apr 4, 2014, 9:14 am
#155
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Personally, I'm taking a wait and see approach and remain somewhat skeptical about rumors from FA's and pilots. But, given the pricing that seems to have taken hold in Y, it very well make a fair bit of sense to increase density.
Apr 4, 2014, 9:18 am
#156
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Seems that Delta is looking for the tipping point between profits and BE travelers. EC is a moneymaker at the expense reducing BE seating in the 777 and 747, which should result in driving the cost of BE up. As loyal as I am to Delta, there is a point that what they offer in international BE doesn't jive with what they charge.
I spend enough of my life on airplanes that it isn't just a seat to a destination, and the experience and surroundings begin to matter. If the investment is in Y, and not improving, but charging more for the current BE experience, than One World begins to look more attractive.
I spend enough of my life on airplanes that it isn't just a seat to a destination, and the experience and surroundings begin to matter. If the investment is in Y, and not improving, but charging more for the current BE experience, than One World begins to look more attractive.
DL is doing away with everything good they used to offer. Even for people willing to pay!
Apr 4, 2014, 9:21 am
#157
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I was chatting to a friend of mine who is a DL FA and they asked me to post this on their behalf -
"I have read through this entire thread - and I can say, it is true.
I am a FA and fly the 747 regularly. We started hearing this from our pilots a little before this thread was started. They did receive a memo about it. Apparently the reconfig will start in September - though I am not clear on the exact number of EC seats. When I first started to hear this, I thought surely it must be a rumor, since it sounded so ridiculous. We just spent a lot of money reconfiguring our 747s - and now this? But like many of you here, unfortunately that Delta would do this does not surprise me.
The pilots I have spoken with are not happy about it due to flight deck security concerns. We FAs are not happy about it because like you, we view the UD as a very desirable product for our HVCs, especially those who fly our 747 regularly. Those of us who fly the same routes have gotten to know many of our UD HVCs and know they request specific seats - and will be very unhappy about this change. That we are retiring our 747s as they come up for their D checks only makes this more of a waste. I am sure some bean counter has figured out it will be worth it somehow - but there must be a value on lost revenue due to unhappy HVCs.
While it may not help, I would encourage all HVCs who are unhappy with this to please write the company. They don't listen to us (employees) but maybe they will listen to you."
"I have read through this entire thread - and I can say, it is true.
I am a FA and fly the 747 regularly. We started hearing this from our pilots a little before this thread was started. They did receive a memo about it. Apparently the reconfig will start in September - though I am not clear on the exact number of EC seats. When I first started to hear this, I thought surely it must be a rumor, since it sounded so ridiculous. We just spent a lot of money reconfiguring our 747s - and now this? But like many of you here, unfortunately that Delta would do this does not surprise me.
The pilots I have spoken with are not happy about it due to flight deck security concerns. We FAs are not happy about it because like you, we view the UD as a very desirable product for our HVCs, especially those who fly our 747 regularly. Those of us who fly the same routes have gotten to know many of our UD HVCs and know they request specific seats - and will be very unhappy about this change. That we are retiring our 747s as they come up for their D checks only makes this more of a waste. I am sure some bean counter has figured out it will be worth it somehow - but there must be a value on lost revenue due to unhappy HVCs.
While it may not help, I would encourage all HVCs who are unhappy with this to please write the company. They don't listen to us (employees) but maybe they will listen to you."
"Maybe they will listen to you." Thanks for the laugh.
Apr 4, 2014, 9:25 am
#158
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Horse hockey. Plane drivers just like to complain. They especially like to complain about stuff like this to make their job seem harder than it is.
Personally, I'm taking a wait and see approach and remain somewhat skeptical about rumors from FA's and pilots. But, given the pricing that seems to have taken hold in Y, it very well make a fair bit of sense to increase density.
Personally, I'm taking a wait and see approach and remain somewhat skeptical about rumors from FA's and pilots. But, given the pricing that seems to have taken hold in Y, it very well make a fair bit of sense to increase density.
Pilots often know DL's plans well ahead of time. A pilot told me about the HKG-SEA direct flight about a year in advance.
Apr 4, 2014, 9:31 am
#159
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Just think of those poor FAMs who will have to ride up there in coach. . .
Apr 4, 2014, 10:05 am
#160
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I never said my job was hard. Heck, most jobs are relatively easy with the proper training. Driving a plane falls firmly into that category and the plane drivers' "concerns" about safety are plainly ridiculous.
Apr 4, 2014, 10:18 am
#161
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Pilots and FAs are wonderful sources for rumors that never come to fruition. With a company as large as DL it's not unimaginable that one pilot said, "hey you know you could fit a lot of coach seats up here," a couple days later a pilot says, "I heard we're replacing these business seats with coach," a couple days later someone else is saying, "corporate sent out a memo saying their tearing out J from up here and putting in Y," couple days later some guy decides to tell the world about it.
I'm still approaching this with great skepticism. But to people who think because an FA and pilot said something about it, that it's true: you have a thing or two to learn about pilots and FAs and their love of gossip.
I'm still approaching this with great skepticism. But to people who think because an FA and pilot said something about it, that it's true: you have a thing or two to learn about pilots and FAs and their love of gossip.
Apr 4, 2014, 10:18 am
#162
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and there are plenty of pilots and fa's that talk the talk and think they know what DLs next move is going to be. Fact is, its just water cooler talk. They are usually the last to know what is actually going on down in Atlanta.
Apr 4, 2014, 10:28 am
#163
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Apr 4, 2014, 10:53 am
#164
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I'm hoping its just a rumor... a reduction like this would make the 747 J/Y ratio by far the worst in the fleet, and in the basement with the domestic A320 (except they are adding 4 seats back to F on that plane).
Apr 4, 2014, 11:18 am
#165
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Pilots and FAs are wonderful sources for rumors that never come to fruition. With a company as large as DL it's not unimaginable that one pilot said, "hey you know you could fit a lot of coach seats up here," a couple days later a pilot says, "I heard we're replacing these business seats with coach," a couple days later someone else is saying, "corporate sent out a memo saying their tearing out J from up here and putting in Y," couple days later some guy decides to tell the world about it.
I'm still approaching this with great skepticism. But to people who think because an FA and pilot said something about it, that it's true: you have a thing or two to learn about pilots and FAs and their love of gossip.
I'm still approaching this with great skepticism. But to people who think because an FA and pilot said something about it, that it's true: you have a thing or two to learn about pilots and FAs and their love of gossip.