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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 9:21 am
  #931  
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Originally Posted by kettle1
Than jump to UA. I just left UA. You can take my 2 seats each week, RT, and I will be sitting in yours on DL. (I fly approx. 6-8 flts every week). Please come back and review your service on UA in a few months VS DL (Domestic). The "friendly skies" have never been "friendlier". Happy trails.
The competition on these TCON routes isn't UA, it's AA (with better upgrades for 100k fliers), VX (with reasonable DoD upgrades), and B6 (with 38" EMS and Mint).
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 9:37 am
  #932  
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There will always be some changes -- some will positively affect people and some will negatively affect people. I just sort of roll with it

My only concern on this area is that if this change allows a lot of non revs to get the seats that would have been occupied by loyal travellers who typically spend a lot of time on Delta flights ( DM and PM), then I have an issue
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 9:50 am
  #933  
 
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Originally Posted by HongKonger
LOL if you think this would make F "classier."
I bought FC yesterday and it was not any classier than when I get a freebie. I actually wish they would take my meal choice first to make me feel a little better about laying out $2k for a transcon with a connect....
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 10:06 am
  #934  
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Originally Posted by BusTrav8yrs
Good luck with that one. MSP-LGA is usually a A319 with 12 F, and is heavily FCM with at best 1 seat open at the 5 day UG window and usually 0 at the gate. As a DM I was 50% on UG when I purchased coach fares on that route the last couple of years, As a GM you will be in the back.
And there have been times I have sat in the back as a DM on DTW/LGA.
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 10:21 am
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Originally Posted by bubbashow
I would LOVE that. Restore some class to first class.


Seriously, Bubbashow?
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 10:24 am
  #936  
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Originally Posted by BusTrav8yrs
Good luck with that one. MSP-LGA is usually a A319 with 12 F, and is heavily FCM with at best 1 seat open at the 5 day UG window and usually 0 at the gate. As a DM I was 50% on UG when I purchased coach fares on that route the last couple of years, As a GM you will be in the back.
In the last year, I've been upgraded on 9 of 14 flights LGA-MSP where I bought coach seats. (I've paid for FCM a few times, and missed at least one upgrade in part due to FCAM.)
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 10:37 am
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Originally Posted by sethb
In the last year, I've been upgraded on 9 of 14 flights LGA-MSP where I bought coach seats. (I've paid for FCM a few times, and missed at least one upgrade in part due to FCAM.)
And that will get worse after March 2014, All those people that would have been on the transcons now competing as well for that small number of F seats on those flights.
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 10:39 am
  #938  
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Originally Posted by bubbashow
WJBJ - DL is doing just fine and can live without low rev flyers unwilling to pay for the service they desire.
WLBL (Want Loyalty, Buy Loyalty). If DL gives me something because I choose to fly DL when I have a choice, even when DL is a little more expensive or less convenient, then DL is buying my loyalty. That's a fair exchange.

When DL stops giving me benefits for flying DL often, then I have no incentive to fly DL often, and my JFK-SFO flights (maybe half a dozen round trips in the past year) won't all be on DL. But DL doesn't need my revenue, it has Bubbashow's gloating "WFBF" over a lot fewer miles to live off of.
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 10:39 am
  #939  
 
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The new Global Upgrades are the only possibilities DM's have to get an upgrade for international or transcon, and since they get only four of them (one way each), DM's can only get complimentary upgrades on two RT's. If they use them on international (which would be my choice), they won't have any left to get transcon upgrades. The difference between that and what we have today is that DM's (and PM's, GM's, even FO's, actually) had a fair shot (though slim) of getting a transcon complimentary upgrade every time they flew. Now, hardly anyone (other than non revs) will ever get upgraded on transcon. So that is a big reduction in benefits.
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 10:54 am
  #940  
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Originally Posted by SFBAY10
My understanding is Platinums get 4 (or less) Global certificates as well for these routes. Under PM probably close to no certificates. You can find the exact data from their website.
Platinums don't get the Global Certs

Originally Posted by sethb
WLBL (Want Loyalty, Buy Loyalty). If DL gives me something because I choose to fly DL when I have a choice, even when DL is a little more expensive or less convenient, then DL is buying my loyalty. That's a fair exchange.

When DL stops giving me benefits for flying DL often, then I have no incentive to fly DL often, and my JFK-SFO flights (maybe half a dozen round trips in the past year) won't all be on DL. But DL doesn't need my revenue, it has Bubbashow's gloating "WFBF" over a lot fewer miles to live off of.
so you don't fly JFK to SFO anymore on DL. What other choices do you have? What other airline will give you free comp UG's to BE on these Premium Transcon flights? I'll give you a hint...None.

Originally Posted by DontYouKnowWhoIAm
I bought FC yesterday and it was not any classier than when I get a freebie. I actually wish they would take my meal choice first to make me feel a little better about laying out $2k for a transcon with a connect....
As an alternative, prices on JFK to LAX with a stopover in ATL, connecting to the 77L, sells for $1400 RT. You get a flatbed and bonus MQMs. U won't get the heavenly pillow or upgraded meal service tho

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson
LAX and SFO flyers apparently have a lot more options and are going to work the unavailability of upgrades into their choice of carrier. So, in addition to empty seats in the front there are likely to be more empty seats in the back.
Options to fly in coach, yes. However, there are no other legacy carriers that allow free comp upgrades into their premium cabin without using some kind of upgrade instruments, and in all of those cases, I believe you have to be top tier elite with that airline. DL is just on par with the other legacies now.

Originally Posted by baccarat_king
On a heavy leisure travel day (LAS market), it is highly unlikely you will find many interested in upgraded. These are the folks that choose their fare 100% on price.

This market cannot be compared to trans-cons like JFK-LAX/SFO (etc.); I'm not even sure LAS-ATL is considered a trans-con (for marketing purposes).

If there was convention and regular business traffic, you would see first class 100% full. And, as you approach New Years, these flights are packed (I was even unable once, to buy into first class on the 30th).

Remember, nobody "really" wants to visit Vegas the time period around Christmas. (16/17th to 28th of December). It's been considered one of the most cost effective times to visit the city. It's also been a time period where a number of shows are dark; though, that's not as much the case anymore.
I was the only one on the UG list 10 days ago on JFK to LAS.

Last edited by Canarsie; Dec 26, 2013 at 11:39 am Reason: Consolidation.
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 11:19 am
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Originally Posted by HongKonger
This is coming soon.
I don't see that happening. If it did, DL would be competing on price alone (with the exception of routing). Their loyalty program is one of the worst in the industry. WN would look much more attractive with their free luggage policy. Status would be almost meaningless. Besides, empty seats up front mean lost revenue on full flights in Y.
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 11:25 am
  #942  
 
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Originally Posted by DL2SXM
so you don't fly JFK to SFO anymore on DL. What other choices do you have? What other airline will give you free comp UG's to BE on these Premium Transcon flights? I'll give you a hint...None.

I can get EC, and a checked bag on B6 for no additional charge without the MQM, MQD headaches.

This is superior to Delta's new unlimited free EC upgrade policy after you are GM or higher subject to MQD requirements.

Why maintain status on Delta to get what B6 provides for the cost of a ticket?
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 11:51 am
  #943  
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Originally Posted by DontYouKnowWhoIAm
I bought FC yesterday and it was not any classier than when I get a freebie.












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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 11:56 am
  #944  
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Originally Posted by DL2SXM
Options to fly in coach, yes. However, there are no other legacy carriers that allow free comp upgrades into their premium cabin without using some kind of upgrade instruments, and in all of those cases, I believe you have to be top tier elite with that airline. DL is just on par with the other legacies now.
DL is behind UA (which allows regional certs on TCON) and AA (which allows instruments for GLD and PLT, and no instrument needed for EXP). DL is also behind VX (which allows discounted DoD upgrades). In Y, DL EC is behind B6 EMS in terms of legroom, though otherwise EC is a competitive product.

But the real issue here isn't that some low yielding Y traffic may disappear, it's that the incentive for incremental travel to make a higher status level (to increase UG chances) is gone. There is little effective difference between GM and DM to the TCON flyer now. Sure, DL won't miss me when I book a TCON on VX, but now when I'm looking at pricier TPAC fares I'll probably book on NH or JL because I don't need the MQM on DL.

Meanwhile, delta.com lists the TCON flights as mileage upgradeable. As we know, this is currently false advertising since inventory is never opened in advance and mileage UG don't go the gate. But if DL fixed that (and/or made regionals valid on these routes), there'd be more incentive to stick with DL.
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Old Dec 26, 2013 | 12:09 pm
  #945  
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Originally Posted by Fred 3
There will always be some changes -- some will positively affect people and some will negatively affect people. I just sort of roll with it

My only concern on this area is that if this change allows a lot of non revs to get the seats that would have been occupied by loyal travellers who typically spend a lot of time on Delta flights ( DM and PM), then I have an issue
That is exactly what is going to happen.

BTW if you "have an issue" you aren't "roll[ing] with it."
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