“Shena”: The Definitive “Shenanigans” Thread
#3196
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BNA
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,027
My settings preference and flight preference is always set to request C+ upgrade, I check at the window if I am "upgraded" to a middle, I put myself back to Main Cabin. Then at check in I will get the aisle/window box.
Usually my original Main Cabin seat is available to go back to, but it could result in a worse seat, so not necessarily advocating this approach.
Also, I suppose this scenario won't work for FO, but works for GM.
#3197
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC/ EWR/ PHL
Programs: UA Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 2,212
It does not have to be 'deselected' in your profile, or even your flight. At least has been my experience.
My settings preference and flight preference is always set to request C+ upgrade, I check at the window if I am "upgraded" to a middle, I put myself back to Main Cabin. Then at check in I will get the aisle/window box.
Usually my original Main Cabin seat is available to go back to, but it could result in a worse seat, so not necessarily advocating this approach.
Also, I suppose this scenario won't work for FO, but works for GM.
My settings preference and flight preference is always set to request C+ upgrade, I check at the window if I am "upgraded" to a middle, I put myself back to Main Cabin. Then at check in I will get the aisle/window box.
Usually my original Main Cabin seat is available to go back to, but it could result in a worse seat, so not necessarily advocating this approach.
Also, I suppose this scenario won't work for FO, but works for GM.
#3198
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BNA
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,027
My assumption was mainly based on not understanding how this works in conjunction with the app checking you in automatically. If you are already checked in when you downgrade yourself I don't see when the aisle window question would be asked. Other than by a GA which did happen to me once, they called me up to see if I wanted a middle C+ seat, I politely declined. They must not be able to see that I already removed myself from the middle seat upgrade.
#3199
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC/ EWR/ PHL
Programs: UA Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 2,212
It was an assumption on my part that because check in and upgrade for FO is both at t-24 you would not be able to downgrade yourself and then check in.
My assumption was mainly based on not understanding how this works in conjunction with the app checking you in automatically. If you are already checked in when you downgrade yourself I don't see when the aisle window question would be asked. Other than by a GA which did happen to me once, they called me up to see if I wanted a middle C+ seat, I politely declined. They must not be able to see that I already removed myself from the middle seat upgrade.
My assumption was mainly based on not understanding how this works in conjunction with the app checking you in automatically. If you are already checked in when you downgrade yourself I don't see when the aisle window question would be asked. Other than by a GA which did happen to me once, they called me up to see if I wanted a middle C+ seat, I politely declined. They must not be able to see that I already removed myself from the middle seat upgrade.
#3200
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BNA
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,027
You can change your seat, but after check in you won't get the C+ aisle/window only upgrade check box, which is why I assumed my suggestion wouldn't work for FO.
#3201
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
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Posts: 10,745
The app only auto-checks-in if you allow it to. An FO could just go to the website to change their seat or open the app and X out of the check in prompts to get into the app without checking in.
#3202
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
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This weekend I noticed a couple oddities with the standby and upgrade lists and I'd like opinions regarding what happened. None of this affected me, so these are just observations.
1. A flight had lots of empty seats (according to EF) and always more available seats than people on the standby list according to the DL app, but we then apparently left with a couple people still on the standby list and not cleared for the flight, despite the app still showing something like four seats available. At first I was envisioning nonrevs being left at the gate because they had annoyed the GA or weren't dressed properly (which would be hard to do according to current rules for a seat in coach), but then I started thinking that it could have been someone with an E class ticked who no showed or had a late connection. However, if so, shouldn't the person have been confirmed onto the flight by the GA (and thus show a seat assignment on the app) and then simply fail to board?
2. An international flight with again lots of empty seats, where D1 availability went from something like 7 to 3 within about six hours of departure and PS availability went from 19 to having the entire PS seat map filled. No one was on the upgrade list on the app for D1 or PS, but there was a long list of folks on the standby list, consistently slightly under the number of available seats according to the app. As departure time approached, people were cleared into coach seats and the D1 cabin was filled. However, with no D1 seats showing as bing assigned to anyone on the standby list and never anyone on the upgrade list, so could that mean that these seats were filled as cheap paid upgrades at the airport? I guess there could have been a VDB on another routing being rebooked onto my flight or something similar to account for only a small number of seats. The PS cabin is harder to understand. According to the app, no one from the standby list was given a PS seat and there was no one on the upgrade list and no upgrades listed. Yet those 19 available PS seats were filled--in fact, when I peaked into the PS cabin to see for myself what how the new cabin looked, it was full--and there was never an indication that the seats were assigned to anyone on the standby list (and no one was on the upgrade list). Yet according to EF, the PS cabin went from being less than half full to being totally full a couple hours before departure, which would have been before the GA arrived at the gate to do any upgrades or seat assignment. These shouldn't have been OPUPs either as coach didn't seem to be overbooked. The standby list grew as departure approached, but I don't think there ever were more standbys listed than the number of available seats. [I suspect some nonrevs flocked to the flight at the last minute for a fun trip probably in a premium cabin, with the odds looking great for at least getting PS.] I was asked to bid for a VDB at check in but when I asked at the airport, I was told that the flight wasn't overbooked or oversold. AFAIK in order for DL to need to do OPUPs, there first would have been more people on the standby list than available seats (which I assume would show on the app as the total number of open seats, D1 + PS + coach, right?), where only those who are confirmed on the flight count for this, not nonrevs and normally not SDS (although some mercy might be shown if weather IROPs were expected, etc., but this was an international flight where no one should have been doing SDS, so that the standby list would consist only of confirmed passengers without seat assignments (including E fares) and nonrevs.
Both cases just looked very strange to me. Any insights? I'm curious about what I observed. I know there can be last minute ticket sales, but 19 PS seats?
1. A flight had lots of empty seats (according to EF) and always more available seats than people on the standby list according to the DL app, but we then apparently left with a couple people still on the standby list and not cleared for the flight, despite the app still showing something like four seats available. At first I was envisioning nonrevs being left at the gate because they had annoyed the GA or weren't dressed properly (which would be hard to do according to current rules for a seat in coach), but then I started thinking that it could have been someone with an E class ticked who no showed or had a late connection. However, if so, shouldn't the person have been confirmed onto the flight by the GA (and thus show a seat assignment on the app) and then simply fail to board?
2. An international flight with again lots of empty seats, where D1 availability went from something like 7 to 3 within about six hours of departure and PS availability went from 19 to having the entire PS seat map filled. No one was on the upgrade list on the app for D1 or PS, but there was a long list of folks on the standby list, consistently slightly under the number of available seats according to the app. As departure time approached, people were cleared into coach seats and the D1 cabin was filled. However, with no D1 seats showing as bing assigned to anyone on the standby list and never anyone on the upgrade list, so could that mean that these seats were filled as cheap paid upgrades at the airport? I guess there could have been a VDB on another routing being rebooked onto my flight or something similar to account for only a small number of seats. The PS cabin is harder to understand. According to the app, no one from the standby list was given a PS seat and there was no one on the upgrade list and no upgrades listed. Yet those 19 available PS seats were filled--in fact, when I peaked into the PS cabin to see for myself what how the new cabin looked, it was full--and there was never an indication that the seats were assigned to anyone on the standby list (and no one was on the upgrade list). Yet according to EF, the PS cabin went from being less than half full to being totally full a couple hours before departure, which would have been before the GA arrived at the gate to do any upgrades or seat assignment. These shouldn't have been OPUPs either as coach didn't seem to be overbooked. The standby list grew as departure approached, but I don't think there ever were more standbys listed than the number of available seats. [I suspect some nonrevs flocked to the flight at the last minute for a fun trip probably in a premium cabin, with the odds looking great for at least getting PS.] I was asked to bid for a VDB at check in but when I asked at the airport, I was told that the flight wasn't overbooked or oversold. AFAIK in order for DL to need to do OPUPs, there first would have been more people on the standby list than available seats (which I assume would show on the app as the total number of open seats, D1 + PS + coach, right?), where only those who are confirmed on the flight count for this, not nonrevs and normally not SDS (although some mercy might be shown if weather IROPs were expected, etc., but this was an international flight where no one should have been doing SDS, so that the standby list would consist only of confirmed passengers without seat assignments (including E fares) and nonrevs.
Both cases just looked very strange to me. Any insights? I'm curious about what I observed. I know there can be last minute ticket sales, but 19 PS seats?
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Nov 19, 2018 at 10:30 pm
#3203
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
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Posts: 100,417
Deleted--posted twice.
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Nov 19, 2018 at 10:30 pm Reason: Wifi issues
#3205
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
Good point, but it was a domestic flight on a 717 of under a thousand miles in good weather, so I wouldn't have thought that this would be pushing the envelope for the aircraft. It's also not a route where I'd expect to see a lot of cargo business, but of course there can be surprises.....
BTW, if seats are being left empty for payload optimization (which I believe would mean VDBs/IDBs if the flight had been full, right?), would they show as available seats for standbys on the app or would they already be subtracted out?
BTW, if seats are being left empty for payload optimization (which I believe would mean VDBs/IDBs if the flight had been full, right?), would they show as available seats for standbys on the app or would they already be subtracted out?
#3206
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,227
This weekend I noticed a couple oddities with the standby and upgrade lists and I'd like opinions regarding what happened. None of this affected me, so these are just observations.
1. A flight had lots of empty seats (according to EF) and always more available seats than people on the standby list according to the DL app, but we then apparently left with a couple people still on the standby list and not cleared for the flight, despite the app still showing something like four seats available. At first I was envisioning nonrevs being left at the gate because they had annoyed the GA or weren't dressed properly (which would be hard to do according to current rules for a seat in coach), but then I started thinking that it could have been someone with an E class ticked who no showed or had a late connection. However, if so, shouldn't the person have been confirmed onto the flight by the GA (and thus show a seat assignment on the app) and then simply fail to board?
Both cases just looked very strange to me. Any insights? I'm curious about what I observed. I know there can be last minute ticket sales, but 19 PS seats?
1. A flight had lots of empty seats (according to EF) and always more available seats than people on the standby list according to the DL app, but we then apparently left with a couple people still on the standby list and not cleared for the flight, despite the app still showing something like four seats available. At first I was envisioning nonrevs being left at the gate because they had annoyed the GA or weren't dressed properly (which would be hard to do according to current rules for a seat in coach), but then I started thinking that it could have been someone with an E class ticked who no showed or had a late connection. However, if so, shouldn't the person have been confirmed onto the flight by the GA (and thus show a seat assignment on the app) and then simply fail to board?
Both cases just looked very strange to me. Any insights? I'm curious about what I observed. I know there can be last minute ticket sales, but 19 PS seats?
#3207
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,643
And, when non-revs are not boarded, they are automatically listed for the next flight. Over time, they may be pushed to numerous later flights and they give up and go home and are effectively no shows when a flight finally has seats.
#3209
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
This weekend I noticed a couple oddities with the standby and upgrade lists and I'd like opinions regarding what happened. None of this affected me, so these are just observations.
1. A flight had lots of empty seats (according to EF) and always more available seats than people on the standby list according to the DL app, but we then apparently left with a couple people still on the standby list and not cleared for the flight, despite the app still showing something like four seats available. At first I was envisioning nonrevs being left at the gate because they had annoyed the GA or weren't dressed properly (which would be hard to do according to current rules for a seat in coach), but then I started thinking that it could have been someone with an E class ticked who no showed or had a late connection. However, if so, shouldn't the person have been confirmed onto the flight by the GA (and thus show a seat assignment on the app) and then simply fail to board?
1. A flight had lots of empty seats (according to EF) and always more available seats than people on the standby list according to the DL app, but we then apparently left with a couple people still on the standby list and not cleared for the flight, despite the app still showing something like four seats available. At first I was envisioning nonrevs being left at the gate because they had annoyed the GA or weren't dressed properly (which would be hard to do according to current rules for a seat in coach), but then I started thinking that it could have been someone with an E class ticked who no showed or had a late connection. However, if so, shouldn't the person have been confirmed onto the flight by the GA (and thus show a seat assignment on the app) and then simply fail to board?
E.g. 10 BE pax, 20 standbys, the app shows 25 seats available, then 5 standbys don't get on.
If the GA is running late, they might not clear all the nonrevs.
#3210
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
Also, that only works if the next flight is within 5 hours.