Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Feb 1, 2019, 12:07 pm
#5536
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
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Just received replacement CSR with contactless. Old card was plastic. New card is also plastic.
Feb 1, 2019, 12:34 pm
#5537
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,138
That's highly disappointing. Again, they should be able to handle contactless with metal given AMEX does. Also, it is a bit strange the previously posted photo of a contactless card was metal (unless it was doctored).
Feb 1, 2019, 12:36 pm
#5538
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I'm pretty sure it's still metal by default. The DP is more indicating that if you requested a plastic card for whatever reason before, the contactless version is still plastic.
Feb 1, 2019, 12:48 pm
#5539
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This would be my assumption as well given the data points here.
Feb 1, 2019, 1:07 pm
#5540
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
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Feb 1, 2019, 2:21 pm
#5541
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Had a contactless fail at lunch today with one of these. As the cashier was telling me that they didn't accept Apple Pay, the terminal errored out claiming that there was more than one card. I inserted afterward (on the right hand side, which is completely different from basically every other terminal) since I didn't want to try again with a line behind me.
Anyway, should I have been trying to hold the phone elsewhere? I was holding above the screen as per most terminal types that I've seen.
Anyway, should I have been trying to hold the phone elsewhere? I was holding above the screen as per most terminal types that I've seen.
Feb 1, 2019, 8:02 pm
#5542
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
My local Target now has contactless support. Using my debit card in Google Pay at the Starbucks inside indicates that the global AID was used (not the common one, as I initially thought it would). As a result, no PIN required.
Additionally, the self-checkout payment options seem to be slightly different than before but I don't know if that's because I ended up on a cash-accepting station or if there was actually a change. See below:
(Pushing "card payment" still only says insert/swipe with no indication that tap is allowed other than the dots on the terminal.)
I also didn't see any signage promoting contactless, but that might come later.
Additionally, the self-checkout payment options seem to be slightly different than before but I don't know if that's because I ended up on a cash-accepting station or if there was actually a change. See below:
(Pushing "card payment" still only says insert/swipe with no indication that tap is allowed other than the dots on the terminal.)
I also didn't see any signage promoting contactless, but that might come later.
Feb 1, 2019, 8:13 pm
#5543
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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Posts: 2,495
Tuesday Morning seems to have enabled EMV and Contactless, finally. It is using Verifone Point on MX915s and I can't tell if the NFC is MSD or EMV. Also there was no signature required for my under $20 transaction. Last visit there about six months ago involved swiping the card and signing the paper slip.
What is funny is the receipt says "Cardholder Signature Verified" and the card number last 4, but other than that, no card transaction information on the receipt.
What is funny is the receipt says "Cardholder Signature Verified" and the card number last 4, but other than that, no card transaction information on the receipt.
Feb 2, 2019, 12:21 am
#5544
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My contactless CSR arrived and it's still metal. There wasn't anything promoting contactless in the envelope, but I'm guessing they think that people who travel overseas already know a little bit about that.
EDIT: it looks like it doesn't matter which side I put the card on my NFC reader; cardpeek can read it fine. I'll have to try it in a store to confirm, however. Also, I'm not sure if it's just what I'm transmitting to make DDA appear but the card supposedly doesn't support MSD mode (AIP of 2000).
Additionally, CTQ (9F6C) is indicating that online PIN's...required? (value of 4000) I'll need to check some stuff in my emv.lua file and possibly read via regular EMV to make sure it's still chip and signature only.
EDIT 2: The card is still signature-only when inserted. Maybe I should still request the cash advance PIN, though, just in case it turns out that transactions over the CVM limit in a particular country can be done contactlessly with PIN. (Not sure I would be able to test that in the US since a) there's not actually a contactless limit and b) I'm not sure about online PIN support even if there were a CVM limit for contactless.)
EDIT: it looks like it doesn't matter which side I put the card on my NFC reader; cardpeek can read it fine. I'll have to try it in a store to confirm, however. Also, I'm not sure if it's just what I'm transmitting to make DDA appear but the card supposedly doesn't support MSD mode (AIP of 2000).
Additionally, CTQ (9F6C) is indicating that online PIN's...required? (value of 4000) I'll need to check some stuff in my emv.lua file and possibly read via regular EMV to make sure it's still chip and signature only.
EDIT 2: The card is still signature-only when inserted. Maybe I should still request the cash advance PIN, though, just in case it turns out that transactions over the CVM limit in a particular country can be done contactlessly with PIN. (Not sure I would be able to test that in the US since a) there's not actually a contactless limit and b) I'm not sure about online PIN support even if there were a CVM limit for contactless.)
Last edited by tmiw; Feb 2, 2019 at 12:50 am
Feb 2, 2019, 4:01 am
#5545
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So I was mistaken about the lack of promotion of contactless. I took a closer look and it's on the same piece of paper that the card was glued to. 
Also, I found some interesting stuff about how Visa suggests that contactless be configured on US terminals. From here:
First off, based on the above, Safeway's hands might have been tied re: PIN and contactless debit. At least if they wanted to support debit routing, anyway. Unfortunately, it also means that CDCVM basically won't be a thing at stores that do such routing, even if the store wants to route over Visa for a specific transaction.
Additionally, Quick Chip might actually be good for one thing: being able to test the supposed online PIN requirement of my CSR without having to spend >$50. I know that online PIN did work on the global AID at Target way back when EMV first came out, for instance, so it might be possible to get a PIN prompt for like a $2 tapped purchase there. Of course, it's not guaranteed that PIN will be configured as supported on the contactless interface anywhere, especially considering what merchants know about how the EMV rollout went.
BTW, apparently Visa also recommends that signature be set as supported on unattended terminals in the linked document.
Also, I found some interesting stuff about how Visa suggests that contactless be configured on US terminals. From here:
First off, based on the above, Safeway's hands might have been tied re: PIN and contactless debit. At least if they wanted to support debit routing, anyway. Unfortunately, it also means that CDCVM basically won't be a thing at stores that do such routing, even if the store wants to route over Visa for a specific transaction.
Additionally, Quick Chip might actually be good for one thing: being able to test the supposed online PIN requirement of my CSR without having to spend >$50. I know that online PIN did work on the global AID at Target way back when EMV first came out, for instance, so it might be possible to get a PIN prompt for like a $2 tapped purchase there. Of course, it's not guaranteed that PIN will be configured as supported on the contactless interface anywhere, especially considering what merchants know about how the EMV rollout went.
BTW, apparently Visa also recommends that signature be set as supported on unattended terminals in the linked document.
Feb 2, 2019, 3:30 pm
#5546
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Wow, I totally failed at my interpretation of cardpeek last night. PIN preference would have resulted in a CTQ of 8000, not 4000. Sorry for the false alarm, guys. 
That said, MSD mode is still supposedly not enabled, so I got that part right. However, the card still seems to work at MSD-only merchants (or at least I think it does; a vending machine had no issues with it, plus a Vons location where the terminal displayed "enter PIN or push Enter for credit" for the person in front of me with her debit card in Apple Pay). I might try a Chevron with outdoor contactless to be 100% sure, however. Are terminals just being programmed to simulate MSD mode anyway regardless of what the card says?
BTW considering the Visa thing I posted above, it's kinda weird that the receipt at CVS showed a CVM of "1F0000" (No CVM Required) with the CSR despite tapping it at the self-checkout before choosing to go to the payment screen. Perhaps full integration means that it's just ignoring whatever the card returns? Then again, I'm pretty sure I remember the receipt showing CDCVM for small amounts at CVS too.
That said, MSD mode is still supposedly not enabled, so I got that part right. However, the card still seems to work at MSD-only merchants (or at least I think it does; a vending machine had no issues with it, plus a Vons location where the terminal displayed "enter PIN or push Enter for credit" for the person in front of me with her debit card in Apple Pay). I might try a Chevron with outdoor contactless to be 100% sure, however. Are terminals just being programmed to simulate MSD mode anyway regardless of what the card says?
BTW considering the Visa thing I posted above, it's kinda weird that the receipt at CVS showed a CVM of "1F0000" (No CVM Required) with the CSR despite tapping it at the self-checkout before choosing to go to the payment screen. Perhaps full integration means that it's just ignoring whatever the card returns? Then again, I'm pretty sure I remember the receipt showing CDCVM for small amounts at CVS too.
Feb 2, 2019, 3:39 pm
#5547
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
I don’t think Wells Fargo ever completely stopped. I received a replacement Visa Signature card a few months ago and it still had contactless. Perhaps though this means they’ll expand contactless to newer cards like Cash Wise that don’t seem to have ever had it.
I’ve never needed to connect to Target WiFi to use Cartwheel, cellular data works just fine. I just use it for coupons though, I don’t have a REDcard so I don’t use it for paying.
It only seems a few Targets have issue with data as most of the ones I went yesterday had working data and the cartwheel app worked just fine at those. I also use the Cartwheel app for coupons and gift cards and its actually pretty nice. Now I can just bring my phone into Target and use it for gift cards, coupons then pay with Google Pay only one device needed now for everything I like that.
Feb 2, 2019, 4:03 pm
#5548
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OK, so the card does do MSD mode after all but cardpeek has to send TTQ that indicates that EMV mode isn't supported. That solves that mystery. I guess we'll have to wait until at least the next replacement for banks to consider not including support.
I would imagine they would get it eventually. The supposed 100 million cards by the end of the year might be mostly Chase cards, though, so either the others are just going to replace them as they expire or only a few card products will get it to start. Of course, it's possible that banks might end up blowing through Visa's estimate too.
I would imagine they would get it eventually. The supposed 100 million cards by the end of the year might be mostly Chase cards, though, so either the others are just going to replace them as they expire or only a few card products will get it to start. Of course, it's possible that banks might end up blowing through Visa's estimate too.
Feb 2, 2019, 8:41 pm
#5549
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
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Posts: 3,516
Yes, this is how Visa cards work. If the TTQ from the terminal indicates that qVSDC is supported, the card will always respond that MSD is not supported. This is to prevent MSD from being used. Only if the terminal say only MSD is supported and the card supports it will it respond that it is also supported. Chase did the right thing here including support for MSD. There are still far too many terminals in the US that are not qVSDC enabled, and I'm sceptical they will even meet the 13 April deadline. The last thing Chase needs is for cardholders to think their card doesn't work properly and then never use contactless. Chase can always 'disable' MSD support by declining the transactions on its end.
Feb 2, 2019, 10:44 pm
#5550
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Went to TA Truck Stop today. They have Mobil gas at this location. Inside they have a long counter with about 4 IBM POS that had Equinox pinpads with duct tape covering over the chip readers and all of those had the screens covered up with arrows point down to the last register. I think those IBM POS actually run the same software that Pilot and Love's use. The last register is a Verifone register and has MX915 and seems to be connected to the Mobil gas pumps. Previously, they only used that register for gas. Now, it appears they are using it for everything as they ran my merchandise purchase through it and everything is enabled on that one (Chip, NFC).
I guess that is progress?
I guess that is progress?