Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Feb 8, 2019, 9:46 am
#5597
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The Panda Express in Reno on Kietzke Lane that got MX915s late last year has EMV Contactless, Quick Chip, on Verifone Point Software. All interactions with the pinpad work while the employee is entering the order into the register. It also has scrolling Panda marketing messages on the idle screen. It looks pretty "official." This is a high volume location that gets quite a few larger orders.
Yet another Panda opened a month or so after Kietzke got MX915s and is swipe only... so who knows what they are doing.
Yet another Panda opened a month or so after Kietzke got MX915s and is swipe only... so who knows what they are doing.
Feb 8, 2019, 10:40 am
#5598
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On a different note, has anyone had problems with contactless at Harbor Freight recently? Someone reported a location claiming that the terminal told them to insert chip after tapping (hence it shouldn't be considered as supporting contactless), but I was able to use it with a MC this morning with no issues other than the MX925 being finicky to read the phone in the first place.
Feb 8, 2019, 10:53 am
#5599
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
On a different note, has anyone had problems with contactless at Harbor Freight recently? Someone reported a location claiming that the terminal told them to insert chip after tapping (hence it shouldn't be considered as supporting contactless), but I was able to use it with a MC this morning with no issues other than the MX925 being finicky to read the phone in the first place.
Also speaking of Panda Express they have both iSC250's(mentioned previously as well?) and MX915's and it seems no locations around here have any kind of pinpads even MX915's swipe only enabled.
Feb 8, 2019, 11:00 am
#5600
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My closest location had no dots on the screen so contactless was disabled as of a few months ago. It had been working at another location a year or so ago though. No idea if some locations have it while others don't or what.
Also speaking of Panda Express they have both iSC250's(mentioned previously as well?) and MX915's and it seems no locations around here have any kind of pinpads even MX915's swipe only enabled.
Also speaking of Panda Express they have both iSC250's(mentioned previously as well?) and MX915's and it seems no locations around here have any kind of pinpads even MX915's swipe only enabled.
Last edited by tmiw; Feb 8, 2019 at 11:16 am
Feb 8, 2019, 11:21 pm
#5601
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So I think it's not the terminals I ran into this morning but more a bug with the Citi Pay app that explains the flakiness with reading. Had the same issue at JCPenney later in the day which resolved itself when I switched away and back to the app. Fortunately I think I'm close to meeting minimum spend, so I'll be able to go back to the Google Pay app again. ^
Feb 9, 2019, 3:26 am
#5602
Join Date: Sep 2014
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Panda Express with iSC250s.(TX)
Feb 9, 2019, 7:34 am
#5603
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Feb 9, 2019, 9:11 am
#5604
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I wonder if this was part of the testing. Interested to see which one they end up going with for the full rollout.
Feb 9, 2019, 4:48 pm
#5605
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
My local smoothie shop guy has updated his POS. He told me that Square required them to get the new system so contactless is finally there.
Feb 9, 2019, 4:58 pm
#5606
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San Diego's parking meters apparently don't like AmEx on mobile wallets; "read fail" shows as the error message. Using my physical CSR contactless card worked fine.
Anyway, I'll have to go back to a part of town with them and try a physical AmEx contactless card to see if Google Pay being MSD-only is the issue or if it's AmEx contactless in general. (I seem to remember that they accept AmEx when inserted despite not showing the logo but not actually accepting anything other than Visa/MC is a possibility too.) It would make sense if it were EMV contactless only as that would explain the instant "approval" and deferred authorization with contactless vs. going online when inserting/removing.
I would think it wouldn't matter much from a customer perspective since the UI/functionality can be made the same on both if desired, including adding Quick Chip if they think it's needed.
Anyway, I'll have to go back to a part of town with them and try a physical AmEx contactless card to see if Google Pay being MSD-only is the issue or if it's AmEx contactless in general. (I seem to remember that they accept AmEx when inserted despite not showing the logo but not actually accepting anything other than Visa/MC is a possibility too.) It would make sense if it were EMV contactless only as that would explain the instant "approval" and deferred authorization with contactless vs. going online when inserting/removing.
I would think it wouldn't matter much from a customer perspective since the UI/functionality can be made the same on both if desired, including adding Quick Chip if they think it's needed.
Feb 9, 2019, 5:57 pm
#5607
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Ended up at another meter. Turns out that if they did accept AmEx before, they don't now. ("Use another card" when inserted.)
Also, Whole Foods used MSD again today with MC. I'm guessing they actually rolled EMV back, at least partially.
Also, Whole Foods used MSD again today with MC. I'm guessing they actually rolled EMV back, at least partially.
Feb 9, 2019, 11:57 pm
#5608
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The bad news is that I got an "insert chip" error with the Citi Pay app on the first attempt. The second attempt caused the terminal to tell me to look at my phone for instructions. I just gave up and inserted at that point. I'm going to guess that they got the the EMV contactless update, so it might be worthwhile to try with Google Pay or a physical contactless card next time.
Feb 10, 2019, 9:34 am
#5609
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
So I may be going to Taco Cabana in the next few months and do they accept contactless or is it the same as it was in 2017 so almost not working or is it completely turned off now? They do apparently use Verifone Point and even Taco Bell who also uses Point is getting contactless so its possible TC is.
Also people on Twitter have been saying that Ikea is not supporting Apple Pay anymore and I've had issues with it reading my phone too but a ctls card did read alright which is very odd. No idea whats going on with Ikea and I am interested in hearing around others experiences at Ikea.
Also people on Twitter have been saying that Ikea is not supporting Apple Pay anymore and I've had issues with it reading my phone too but a ctls card did read alright which is very odd. No idea whats going on with Ikea and I am interested in hearing around others experiences at Ikea.
Feb 10, 2019, 9:58 am
#5610
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
First time running into this at restaurant. I saw the restaurant came up on Google Pay after I saw them walking around with this device for other customers. When it was our time to check out, I asked him if I could use NFC and he activated it for me. Easy Peasy.