Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Jul 25, 2014 | 11:28 am
#871
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Citibank offers an Amex card on AA. It charges the usual citibank 3% ftf (most use the AA mastercard I think). BA has an Amex card, at least one. Pen Fed has an Amex card, at least one.
Now the question of acquirer. Long long ago, once upon a time, merchants signed up with banks to accept whatever cc the bank accepted, then signed up with Amex to accept Amex cards, then signed up with Diners to accept DC until it was purchased by Citibank, then signed up with Discover when it came out.
But then as time marched forward, you signed up with a credit card processor to the point and I just use it as an example people signed up say with square.com and you could take all of them. In a few cases, there might be a slight difference in the discount rate if you took Amex. So when I take a credit card via my square account, for the 3 or 4 transacton I might do a year with or without a surcharge
... is square the acquirer? How many merchants, all kidding aside, have signed up with whatever company pushing dcc. Since it's all automatic today I assume that what happens in an Amex transaction the pos terminal will not flash a choice to be made of currency whereas with visa/mc it will.
I know the response is a bit convoluted to say the least but I guess it's not as simple as we would like to believe it is.
Now the question of acquirer. Long long ago, once upon a time, merchants signed up with banks to accept whatever cc the bank accepted, then signed up with Amex to accept Amex cards, then signed up with Diners to accept DC until it was purchased by Citibank, then signed up with Discover when it came out.
But then as time marched forward, you signed up with a credit card processor to the point and I just use it as an example people signed up say with square.com and you could take all of them. In a few cases, there might be a slight difference in the discount rate if you took Amex. So when I take a credit card via my square account, for the 3 or 4 transacton I might do a year with or without a surcharge
... is square the acquirer? How many merchants, all kidding aside, have signed up with whatever company pushing dcc. Since it's all automatic today I assume that what happens in an Amex transaction the pos terminal will not flash a choice to be made of currency whereas with visa/mc it will.I know the response is a bit convoluted to say the least but I guess it's not as simple as we would like to believe it is.
With a normal merchant account you'll accept Visa, MasterCard and then some of the more regional networks (Maestro, Discover/Diners Club (although acquirers are now automatically including this more and more), China Unionpay, Interac etc.). They will then often automatically sign you for American Express but the difference is that they apply on your behalf to Amex for a merchant account (Amex pays acquirers for doing this), after this the merchant is a customer of Amex. There a few exceptions like the new Optblue scheme but this is generally what happens.
Jul 25, 2014 | 11:59 am
#872
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I totally support this.
It is totally technologically feasible. I believe terminals all have their home currency information, that is why transactions in some countries tend to raise security flags. If Visa/MC detects transactions in the currencies that are not the local ones, they deny those.
Consumer opt-in is just like DCC, it's a feature, it's not mandatory. If DCC is legal, then this is too.
If Visa/MC don't bother to do this, we can always deface the receipt and do chargebacks.
So, it is not the end of the world at all guys!
It is totally technologically feasible. I believe terminals all have their home currency information, that is why transactions in some countries tend to raise security flags. If Visa/MC detects transactions in the currencies that are not the local ones, they deny those.
Consumer opt-in is just like DCC, it's a feature, it's not mandatory. If DCC is legal, then this is too.
If Visa/MC don't bother to do this, we can always deface the receipt and do chargebacks.
So, it is not the end of the world at all guys!
Jul 25, 2014 | 12:32 pm
#873
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: HHonors Gold, Marriott Lifetime Gold, IHG Gold, OZ*G, AA Gold, AS MVP
Posts: 1,944
Dude, which is your base of operation...?
Your arsenal intrigues me so much that I really have some questions~
1) Why you have both China Unicom and China Mobile? What is China Unicom HK?
2) I don't know China Mobile has super cheap data roaming in South Korea. How much is it? I think China Unicom has 200 CNY for 200MB data monthly package.
Using China's SIM cards for data can create all sorts of problems. I guess if you have a phone from China now, just try Google "USD to CNY" and tell me whether you are taken to Google or blocked...
Your arsenal intrigues me so much that I really have some questions~
1) Why you have both China Unicom and China Mobile? What is China Unicom HK?
2) I don't know China Mobile has super cheap data roaming in South Korea. How much is it? I think China Unicom has 200 CNY for 200MB data monthly package.
Using China's SIM cards for data can create all sorts of problems. I guess if you have a phone from China now, just try Google "USD to CNY" and tell me whether you are taken to Google or blocked...
1. China Unicom HK- it's a China Unicom SIM issued from HK. I get HK and mainland numbers, and I can make calls in the mainland for HK$0.45 (Guangdong)/HK$0.60 (elsewhere) per minute. Internet is HK$78/500MB unfiltered, lasts a week on the mainland. In Taiwan, Japan, and Macau it's HK$68/day. And it can be reloaded with a Visa/MasterCard issued outside HK- or PayPal. I just sold one to a classmate going there for the first time who wanted cheap, easy-to-use unfiltered internet on his phone.
2. China Mobile used to. They closed the option to new customers half a year ago, but I still have it. 88RMB/day for unlimited data usage in HK/Macau/Taiwan/S.Korea/Japan/Singapore/Malaysia/Thailand/Philippines/Indonesia/Pakistan. Now it's 30RMB for 50MB data in S.Korea. (Yes, it suffers from the usual mainland internet restrictions but it's quicker than T-Mobile roaming).
(sorry for the off-topic)
Jul 25, 2014 | 1:01 pm
#874
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
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It's ok. I'm wondering is the T-Mobile plan filtered over there too? I wasn't aware that the 3 HK SIMs would be unfiltered, but that might be an option for me in the future. I did have one a few years ago, and I was intending to use it for roaming around China, but I lost the account information and just let it expire. Now the only card I actively maintain is the Taiwan Mobile one since it's such a pain to get. Furthermore, Taiwan Mobile's card doesn't lose its balance as long as you recharge once every six months (300 TWD minimum). ^
Jul 25, 2014 | 6:12 pm
#875
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
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Next means 2015, right? I've heard the EU is fed up with roaming. In US, you cross the state line into another state, but still the same country; in EU, you move about the same distance and you are foreign... Kind of interesting.
Don't forget Wells Fargo, who denied my Propel World application... I think your reasoning in the second paragraph totally make sense.
Good question... Visa should have done the exchanging, right? So, maybe you're right that transactions are presented in local currency.
But I think there is still a difference between authorized and posted. The conversion should be done by Visa/MC when it is posted, so at the time of authorization, there can be things done to deny DCC, right?
And, Visa/MC can always know USD is charged in China, so a no-DCC list can be maintained by them.
Though only China Mobile has operation in HK...
Any foreign SIM cards would have unfiltered internet in China. I am using one right now to have stable connection on my Android device for Gmail pushing to work properly.
It depends on the APN of your phone. If it is not cmnet or 3gnet, you get IPs out of China.
It's like a VPN that is always on. Or like proxy, but un-censored (I've tried proxy servers on IE, and youtube.com still got blocked because the data exchange with proxy service is not encrypted, so the string of youtube.com is seen by the firewall anyway).
In most countries there are probably more non-amex issued amex network cards than Amex issued cards. 4 Banks in the UK issue American Express cards (Lloyds, TSB, MBNA and Barclaycard). I know Australia is very similar along with several others like Russia, India and Greece.
The main reason there is no DCC on American Express transactions is because American Express is usually the acquirer (for its own transactions only obviously) and the network. It would make no sense to have DCC as American Express makes the foreign transaction fee (off the issuer if not an Amex issued card and usually off the customer if it is an Amex card). American Express would be competing with themselves!
The main reason there is no DCC on American Express transactions is because American Express is usually the acquirer (for its own transactions only obviously) and the network. It would make no sense to have DCC as American Express makes the foreign transaction fee (off the issuer if not an Amex issued card and usually off the customer if it is an Amex card). American Express would be competing with themselves!
How does the transaction present to the issuer? I know most US cards now have foreign transaction fees rather than currency exchange fees, so I had wondered if Visa/MasterCard present the transaction in the card's currency to the issuer. (...which would make the bank's additional 2% above the Visa/MC rate a true profit grab rather than a value-added service.)
But I think there is still a difference between authorized and posted. The conversion should be done by Visa/MC when it is posted, so at the time of authorization, there can be things done to deny DCC, right?
And, Visa/MC can always know USD is charged in China, so a no-DCC list can be maintained by them.
China Unicom HK- it's a China Unicom SIM issued from HK. I get HK and mainland numbers, and I can make calls in the mainland for HK$0.45 (Guangdong)/HK$0.60 (elsewhere) per minute. Internet is HK$78/500MB unfiltered, lasts a week on the mainland. In Taiwan, Japan, and Macau it's HK$68/day. And it can be reloaded with a Visa/MasterCard issued outside HK- or PayPal. I just sold one to a classmate going there for the first time who wanted cheap, easy-to-use unfiltered internet on his phone.
Any foreign SIM cards would have unfiltered internet in China. I am using one right now to have stable connection on my Android device for Gmail pushing to work properly.
It depends on the APN of your phone. If it is not cmnet or 3gnet, you get IPs out of China.
It's like a VPN that is always on. Or like proxy, but un-censored (I've tried proxy servers on IE, and youtube.com still got blocked because the data exchange with proxy service is not encrypted, so the string of youtube.com is seen by the firewall anyway).
Jul 25, 2014 | 7:38 pm
#876
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Posts: 1,944
Though only China Mobile has operation in HK...
Any foreign SIM cards would have unfiltered internet in China. I am using one right now to have stable connection on my Android device for Gmail pushing to work properly.
It depends on the APN of your phone. If it is not cmnet or 3gnet, you get IPs out of China.
It's like a VPN that is always on. Or like proxy, but un-censored (I've tried proxy servers on IE, and youtube.com still got blocked because the data exchange with proxy service is not encrypted, so the string of youtube.com is seen by the firewall anyway).
Any foreign SIM cards would have unfiltered internet in China. I am using one right now to have stable connection on my Android device for Gmail pushing to work properly.
It depends on the APN of your phone. If it is not cmnet or 3gnet, you get IPs out of China.
It's like a VPN that is always on. Or like proxy, but un-censored (I've tried proxy servers on IE, and youtube.com still got blocked because the data exchange with proxy service is not encrypted, so the string of youtube.com is seen by the firewall anyway).
Jul 26, 2014 | 6:26 am
#877
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
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Posts: 664
Here is the China Unicom HK homepage. Very handy card to have because they have normal 3G, and even though they tell you to set their 3gnet APN you still get unfiltered internet.
It's interesting 3gnet would give you unfiltered internet. Would you try Google "what is my IP" and see whether it's a HK IP or China IP?
Jul 26, 2014 | 9:32 am
#878
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Posts: 12,743
Let's get back on topic folks. Thank you.
Jul 26, 2014 | 6:34 pm
#879
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Good question... Visa should have done the exchanging, right? So, maybe you're right that transactions are presented in local currency.
But I think there is still a difference between authorized and posted. The conversion should be done by Visa/MC when it is posted, so at the time of authorization, there can be things done to deny DCC, right?
And, Visa/MC can always know USD is charged in China, so a no-DCC list can be maintained by them.
But I think there is still a difference between authorized and posted. The conversion should be done by Visa/MC when it is posted, so at the time of authorization, there can be things done to deny DCC, right?
And, Visa/MC can always know USD is charged in China, so a no-DCC list can be maintained by them.
With DCC, you'd still get hit with the foreign transaction fee if your card has one, and the issuer has an interest in you accepting DCC if the card has a FTF because there would presumably be no conversion costs for the issuer. So, in a case of holding a card with a 3% FTF, the bank would get a 2% profit on all purchases made overseas and a 3% profit if you accepted DCC since Visa/MC wouldn't be tacking on a 1% conversion fee. In the case of a 0% FTF the issuer doesn't eat the 1% Visa/MC conversion fee if you accept DCC. Under this scenario, it's in the issuer's interest to have the cardholder accept DCC.
I think such an opt-in "Do not DCC" list would have to be a mechanism created by Visa and MasterCard. I think this could solve a lot of problems for all involved. For those of us who are militant about avoiding DCC and will not hesitate to force a chargeback to the merchant, we could opt-in to avoid confrontations with merchants. The issuers would stop getting calls from us and avoid a lot of paperwork. Merchants who wished to continue screwing their ignorant customers with DCC could continue to do so. Almost everybody wins. The problem of course is you'd never get the acquirers to play ball. They're currently on the take as part of the DCC scam yet they bear NO RESPONSIBILITY when a merchant is faced with a full Reason Code 76 chargeback. It's on the merchant in that case.
The only reason the merchants start accepting DCC is because the vast majority of customers are ignorant that they're getting ripped off when accepting DCC charges and far fewer go through the procedure to file a dispute with the issuing bank. I imagine an infinitesimally small percentage end up in a chargeback situation where the merchant has to deal with the mess. That's why educating everybody who's likely to encounter DCC about DCC and how to avoid DCC is essential. It's also critical to get them to follow up with their banks and dispute transactions where they got forced into DCC.
Jul 26, 2014 | 7:53 pm
#880
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
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I don't know enough about how the payments run across the Visa/MC networks to tell what happens. If Visa/MC present the transaction in the cardholder currency to the issuer, then the 2% beyond the 1% Visa/MC rate that most banks impose is pure profit with or without DCC. Is my understanding incorrect here?
With DCC, you'd still get hit with the foreign transaction fee if your card has one, and the issuer has an interest in you accepting DCC if the card has a FTF because there would presumably be no conversion costs for the issuer. So, in a case of holding a card with a 3% FTF, the bank would get a 2% profit on all purchases made overseas and a 3% profit if you accepted DCC since Visa/MC wouldn't be tacking on a 1% conversion fee. In the case of a 0% FTF the issuer doesn't eat the 1% Visa/MC conversion fee if you accept DCC. Under this scenario, it's in the issuer's interest to have the cardholder accept DCC.
I think such an opt-in "Do not DCC" list would have to be a mechanism created by Visa and MasterCard. I think this could solve a lot of problems for all involved. For those of us who are militant about avoiding DCC and will not hesitate to force a chargeback to the merchant, we could opt-in to avoid confrontations with merchants. The issuers would stop getting calls from us and avoid a lot of paperwork. Merchants who wished to continue screwing their ignorant customers with DCC could continue to do so. Almost everybody wins. The problem of course is you'd never get the acquirers to play ball. They're currently on the take as part of the DCC scam yet they bear NO RESPONSIBILITY when a merchant is faced with a full Reason Code 76 chargeback. It's on the merchant in that case.
The only reason the merchants start accepting DCC is because the vast majority of customers are ignorant that they're getting ripped off when accepting DCC charges and far fewer go through the procedure to file a dispute with the issuing bank. I imagine an infinitesimally small percentage end up in a chargeback situation where the merchant has to deal with the mess. That's why educating everybody who's likely to encounter DCC about DCC and how to avoid DCC is essential. It's also critical to get them to follow up with their banks and dispute transactions where they got forced into DCC.
With DCC, you'd still get hit with the foreign transaction fee if your card has one, and the issuer has an interest in you accepting DCC if the card has a FTF because there would presumably be no conversion costs for the issuer. So, in a case of holding a card with a 3% FTF, the bank would get a 2% profit on all purchases made overseas and a 3% profit if you accepted DCC since Visa/MC wouldn't be tacking on a 1% conversion fee. In the case of a 0% FTF the issuer doesn't eat the 1% Visa/MC conversion fee if you accept DCC. Under this scenario, it's in the issuer's interest to have the cardholder accept DCC.
I think such an opt-in "Do not DCC" list would have to be a mechanism created by Visa and MasterCard. I think this could solve a lot of problems for all involved. For those of us who are militant about avoiding DCC and will not hesitate to force a chargeback to the merchant, we could opt-in to avoid confrontations with merchants. The issuers would stop getting calls from us and avoid a lot of paperwork. Merchants who wished to continue screwing their ignorant customers with DCC could continue to do so. Almost everybody wins. The problem of course is you'd never get the acquirers to play ball. They're currently on the take as part of the DCC scam yet they bear NO RESPONSIBILITY when a merchant is faced with a full Reason Code 76 chargeback. It's on the merchant in that case.
The only reason the merchants start accepting DCC is because the vast majority of customers are ignorant that they're getting ripped off when accepting DCC charges and far fewer go through the procedure to file a dispute with the issuing bank. I imagine an infinitesimally small percentage end up in a chargeback situation where the merchant has to deal with the mess. That's why educating everybody who's likely to encounter DCC about DCC and how to avoid DCC is essential. It's also critical to get them to follow up with their banks and dispute transactions where they got forced into DCC.
Having a No-DCC mechanism in Visa/MC can stop all the hassle after we get DCCed. It's like a Identity Lock which prevent things from happening at the first place.
I have never tried that, but if I go to Ireland for a month, and gather all the DCC slips together, then request 76 chargeback with Chase, what would happen? I need to manually track the Visa/MC rate though...
Jul 27, 2014 | 4:34 am
#881
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
I'm a bit fuzzy on all the details as to time and place, but a few years ago mc/visa I believe tried to write into their merchant's agreements a provision requiring all transactions be done in local currency, as effective at that might be (after all their regulations require any valid card be honored). At least one of the payment processors sued that they couldn't do that and won the case. After that mc/visa hit on the idea because they make profits on foreign currency exchanges as does your bank, of converting their foreign currency fees to foreign transaction fees so it's now no skin off their rear ends whether one is dcc'd or not.
Jul 27, 2014 | 7:27 am
#882
Original Poster
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Furthermore, with Chase it's really easy to see exactly by how much you got ripped off with DCC. The posted transaction amount without DCC is the Visa rate on the posting date. So, you multiply the Visa rate on the transaction posting date with what the price was in local currency and subtract that total from the amount that shows up on your statement.
Jul 27, 2014 | 8:10 am
#883
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
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I'm a bit fuzzy on all the details as to time and place, but a few years ago mc/visa I believe tried to write into their merchant's agreements a provision requiring all transactions be done in local currency, as effective at that might be (after all their regulations require any valid card be honored). At least one of the payment processors sued that they couldn't do that and won the case. After that mc/visa hit on the idea because they make profits on foreign currency exchanges as does your bank, of converting their foreign currency fees to foreign transaction fees so it's now no skin off their rear ends whether one is dcc'd or not.
You are absolutely correct however that almost all issuers have switched to FTFs from the language of currency conversion fees. This allows them to charge a fee regardless of whether or not they ever deal with a currency conversion. It doesn't matter whether or not the customer accepts DCC; the FTF happens either way. This is a nuance that is lost on almost all of the articles that I've seen on of topic of whether or not to accept DCC. There are those who say, "Never accept DCC in any case." That's the correct mentality. However, I cringe when I read, "Well, it depends on whose fee is lower." This article is a great example. The author says:
However, if your credit card charges a foreign-transaction fee, the choice is murkier. You will want to pay in the currency that generates the cheaper fee.
As I said in my post earlier, I think the payment processors have the most to gain from DCC because they don't shoulder the responsibility of a chargeback in the case of a customer feeling cheated. That's on the merchant. I think the payment processor also gets the bulk of any profits derived from the DCC markup. I think it will be difficult to get rid of DCC if you look at the breakdown of the winners and losers with DCC:
- Merchant: WINNER (mostly) - The merchant will get to keep some of the profits from the DCC markup but could lose out whenever there is a chargeback because of forced DCC. Since chargebacks are rare, the merchant mostly wins.
- Payment Processor: BIG WINNER - The payment processors are the ones we need to shame here. They enable DCC or sometimes force it upon an unsuspecting merchant. They extoll the benefits of being able to provide customers with a value-added service blah blah blah... However, in the case of a chargeback the processor still wins. They throw the hot potato to the merchant and say, "Well, no... you had to give the customer the choice, and you didn't so it's your problem. Catch!"
- Visa/MC: NEUTRAL - In the case of DCC, they're not doing any conversions, so the 1% fee isn't applied. While there might be some small profit within the 1%, the rates are usually competitive, so it's not that much higher. They stand to lose as more and more customers get fed up with the DCC games/FTFs and either pay cash or use AmEx/Discover where possible. It is clear that they have an incentive to make sure at the very least that DCC is disclosed and offered as a choice. In an ideal setting they'd want to prohibit the practice because we all know how some merchants are dishonest when presenting the "choice".
- Card Issuer: WINNER (slightly) - If the issuer charges a FTF, the issuer will get an extra 1% of the transaction amount since the transaction comes across as the cardholder's currency. The card issuer stands to lose if the issuer gets complaints about customer's unwillingly getting hit with DCC and decides to issue a credit rather than a full chargeback. There are likely costs behind the scenes to file a chargeback as well. But just like in the case of the merchant, very few cardholders will actually file a chargeback related to DCC, so the issuers don't yet have an incentive to ask Visa/MC to prevent DCC.
- Customer: BIG LOSER - The bottom line is when you accept DCC you pay more for the same goods and services you would have received had you not accepted DCC. a 3-5% surcharge isn't worth it just to know exactly how much you paid in your home currency.
Jul 27, 2014 | 9:02 am
#884
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
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Majuki - I agree with card processor, merchant and customer.
Visa/MC: The cynical side of me thinks Visa/MC tacitly approves this. They lose on the 1% foriegn currency conversion charge and currency spread, but the charge is not very high and the spread is very thin (vis-a-viz Unionpay or even retail banks). But they gain higher merchant acceptance and increase local interchange (.18% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee).
Furthermore there is a network effect to increasing merchant acceptance - the more merchants accept V/MC abroad, the harder it is for cardholders to avoid them while travelling if they become more aware of its potential to cost them more.
Card issuer: depending on fee structure, they are pretty negative. At least for here in HK where they were happily collecting 0.95% bank foreign currency conversion fee in addition to V/MC's 1% until DCC came about. Now they are dealing with more and more DCC cases (as more and more cardholder becomes aware they're being scammed, esp in HK given our proximity to China without being part of it for credit card purposes).
I think issuers in HK will like to have DCC switched off either for their cards if not system-wide. They've been doing all sorts of overseas spend promos which explicitly exclude DCC - gets us in HK to fight DCC collectively.
Visa/MC: The cynical side of me thinks Visa/MC tacitly approves this. They lose on the 1% foriegn currency conversion charge and currency spread, but the charge is not very high and the spread is very thin (vis-a-viz Unionpay or even retail banks). But they gain higher merchant acceptance and increase local interchange (.18% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee).
Furthermore there is a network effect to increasing merchant acceptance - the more merchants accept V/MC abroad, the harder it is for cardholders to avoid them while travelling if they become more aware of its potential to cost them more.
Card issuer: depending on fee structure, they are pretty negative. At least for here in HK where they were happily collecting 0.95% bank foreign currency conversion fee in addition to V/MC's 1% until DCC came about. Now they are dealing with more and more DCC cases (as more and more cardholder becomes aware they're being scammed, esp in HK given our proximity to China without being part of it for credit card purposes).
I think issuers in HK will like to have DCC switched off either for their cards if not system-wide. They've been doing all sorts of overseas spend promos which explicitly exclude DCC - gets us in HK to fight DCC collectively.
Jul 27, 2014 | 9:24 am
#885
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Majuki - I agree with card processor, merchant and customer.
Visa/MC: The cynical side of me thinks Visa/MC tacitly approves this. They lose on the 1% foriegn currency conversion charge and currency spread, but the charge is not very high and the spread is very thin (vis-a-viz Unionpay or even retail banks). But they gain higher merchant acceptance and increase local interchange (.18% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee).
Furthermore there is a network effect to increasing merchant acceptance - the more merchants accept V/MC abroad, the harder it is for cardholders to avoid them while travelling if they become more aware of its potential to cost them more.
Card issuer: depending on fee structure, they are pretty negative. At least for here in HK where they were happily collecting 0.95% bank foreign currency conversion fee in addition to V/MC's 1% until DCC came about. Now they are dealing with more and more DCC cases (as more and more cardholder becomes aware they're being scammed, esp in HK given our proximity to China without being part of it for credit card purposes).
I think issuers in HK will like to have DCC switched off either for their cards if not system-wide. They've been doing all sorts of overseas spend promos which explicitly exclude DCC - gets us in HK to fight DCC collectively.
Visa/MC: The cynical side of me thinks Visa/MC tacitly approves this. They lose on the 1% foriegn currency conversion charge and currency spread, but the charge is not very high and the spread is very thin (vis-a-viz Unionpay or even retail banks). But they gain higher merchant acceptance and increase local interchange (.18% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee).
Furthermore there is a network effect to increasing merchant acceptance - the more merchants accept V/MC abroad, the harder it is for cardholders to avoid them while travelling if they become more aware of its potential to cost them more.
Card issuer: depending on fee structure, they are pretty negative. At least for here in HK where they were happily collecting 0.95% bank foreign currency conversion fee in addition to V/MC's 1% until DCC came about. Now they are dealing with more and more DCC cases (as more and more cardholder becomes aware they're being scammed, esp in HK given our proximity to China without being part of it for credit card purposes).
I think issuers in HK will like to have DCC switched off either for their cards if not system-wide. They've been doing all sorts of overseas spend promos which explicitly exclude DCC - gets us in HK to fight DCC collectively.
It's still unclear on the Visa/MC side. Does the option of DCC really increase merchant acceptance? As people become more aware of DCC or realize that using a card would cost 3-7% more over cash, wouldn't this steer people toward using cash for purchases, opposite of what Visa/MC want?
It's similar to gas stations here in some states that allow cash "discounts" over credit prices. With the current price of fuel one pays about 3% more for the credit price. This is particularly common in New Jersey where all stations are full service, and I see most people paying cash for fuel. The mentality is cash is cheaper than credit/debit. That mentality could spread to overseas purchases which is exactly what Visa/MC don't want.