percysmith

Moondog's here for a day and we met up for drinks.

When it's time to pay moondog tried paying with his USD card...and promptly got verbage



Although it's a carbon slip I concluded he's been DCCed already:
- no input by waitress/manager at the terminal during/after slip printout
- "I have chosen *not* to use the Mastercard Currency conversion process" already pre-printed.

Moondog did a very, em, aggressive interrogation of the restaurant manager.
We got the standard "circle HKD and you'll pay HKD" statement at first.
We drilled further. He further stated there is no input he will make during or after the transaction - he voided moondog's slip and did a limited repeat of the card charge up to the point where he had to key in HKD - he says he does not make any input after that point.
(He then suggested moondog check with his USD bank and I was worried moondog will take his head off for saying it)

We also pointed to a note above the terminal:
"Function 22: tip adjustment
Function 24: charge the card in HKD"

We repeatedly asked for application of Function 24. The manager said he cannot do that. Function 22 can only be done in HKD.

7.7523 is the exchange rate so the scalp is 4.4%. The slip is also non-compliant for not disclosing spread.

The terminal belongs to HSBC/Global Payments.

moondog

Thank you again. I could never have stood up to my clueless friends without your support.

odahcam

So what would have happened had you written in a tip in HKD and then totalled it in HKD? How would they adjust for that?

percysmith

Translate it at the DCC rate to USD I presume. Since the transaction was never concluded we never know for sure.

lcpteck

Was in Kuala Lumpur recently and used my Citi PM Visa to pay for some incidentals at my Aloft Hotel stay (For some uknown reason, my UOB PRVI Miles Amex couldn't go through) and was charged natively in the local currency MYR. ^

confucious

So I've followed this topic for a while and finally convinced myself to register and post a reply on the forum. First to just say a big thanks to all the extremely useful information all of you have shared and second to share my experience.

Currently in Shanghai for work/holiday, and have found at least one spot that does not DCC: Element Fresh in Kerry Center. To my surprise, I was charged a rate that was pretty much the mid rate of the day even though my bank clearly specifies a 2.5% FX transaction fee, (Mastercard plat, base currency ZAR). Processing bank ICBC.

2 other places I am not sure about are 1)Sunrise duty free at Shanghai airport, it was a UnionPay machine and the slip was thermal with no mention of any rate conversion. I worked out that I was charged a rate about 12% above the mid rate on that day. I did use my Diners Club card for that purchase so not sure if it is anything to do with the CC company itself giving bad rates. The processing bank was BOC even though there was no mention of it on the machine, so I knew I was probably getting DCC'd. I watched the girl swipe my card and slip came out almost instantly with no way of opting out it seems. I figured the rate I would get would be worse than those of you with USD as your base currencies, but 12% is a bit ridiculous. Next is City Super Life supermarket also in Kerry Center in Downtown Shanghai, they had the same machine as Sunrise duty free, also used my Diners Club there to buy some chocolates, still waiting for my online statement to update, have a feeling I will also get a bad rate. Plan to try my Mastercard there next time so I can tell if it is the machine or the CC company giving me the bad rate. Will post updates.

AA_EXP09

DC is run by Mastercard last time I checked.
Have fun in China!
(To be honest, I lived in HK for years and have been to Mainland China 100+ times, but I never saw/met too many African people while I was there.)

moondog

Most establishments (still) do not employ DCC. The 2.5% fee that your CC may or may not tack on is beyond the scope of this thread.

At duty free shops, it is common to have one set of prices in the home currency and a second set in USD/EUR/JPY. Since the latter is not updated very often, large deviations from market FX rates are common. Based on my experience, Sunrise always gives me the choice of the RMB or USD price. If I opt for the former, they issue me a receipt in RMB. This is not DCC.

percysmith

Can Diner's be DCCed? I don't think so.
(But with 12% you might as well be DCCed!)

AA_EXP09

ZAR devaluation might have something to do with it-just a difference in TXN and posting date might make that difference.
(look at the historical graph.)

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

I purchase from Sunrise Duty Free (shanghai) every month - have done for the last five years - so all up around 80-90 purchases (buying both outbound and inbound). I have never had a DCC issue! The slip is printed in RMB and there isn't even an option or discussion about alternative billing.

If a DCC has been performed there will be words to the effect of 'I opt out of the mastrercard conversion for this transaction' on the slip, and both an RMB and home currency will appear on said slip.

I can't even remember telling Sunrise to 'bill in RMB'. And I have also had friends arriving and buying me stuff at sunrise and their receipts are all in RMB (and they wouldn't have asked for billing in RMB because they don't know about DCC).

For SHA and PVG at least, Sunrise does the right thing ^^

confucious

ZAR has devalued quite a bit over the past few years and I'm hating it with all my non-ZAR spend every year, but the daily fluctuations are not large at all, usually within 2% even on the worst days.

I was more worried about them doing DCC without mentioning or giving you a choice because looking at the given rate, I can't think of anything other than DCC. Also because my purchases in Dubai in AED were charged at a much lower rate compared to the mid rate on that day. I guess I won't know until I try the same merchants with my mastercard. Given that others have found Sunrise duty free to be DCC free, I am guessing it's my Diners card causing the problem.

P.S. you should really visit South Africa, depending on where you go, it's nothing like the Africa you imagine

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

just to clarify - if the amount appears in RMB only (and there is no other currency mentioned on the slip - even in microscopic font ) then my understanding is that there isn't a DCC. Your diners statement should show the amount as RMB only, with a conversion beside it.

When a DCC occurs, your credit card statement would should an amount in your home currency only.

confucious

Okay, assuming this is the case then it should be my Diners card charge, it does show local currency on my statement and then the actual amount in my home currency. Doesn't show on my mastercard statement though even if it is not DCC'd

mnredfox

Don't think so. Isn't it processed on same system as Discover/Union Pay?