Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Jul 22, 2014 | 8:51 am
#826
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
Nope. Mop is the legal tender, pegged at mop103 to hkd100. All merchants are supposed to bill by that, even tho hkd is (and merchants prefer) hkd cash payment at 1:1 for obvious reasons.
Because mop is the legal tender, card terminals bill that as local currency without exception (not sure if true for gambling advances inside casino, never tried that)
Regulators are not as strong there (and dare I blame them for being closer to the motherland than us?) DCC is rife.
Because mop is the legal tender, card terminals bill that as local currency without exception (not sure if true for gambling advances inside casino, never tried that)
Regulators are not as strong there (and dare I blame them for being closer to the motherland than us?) DCC is rife.
Jul 22, 2014 | 9:09 am
#827
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold
Posts: 9,605
Nope. Mop is the legal tender, pegged at mop103 to hkd100. All merchants are supposed to bill by that, even tho hkd is (and merchants prefer) hkd cash payment at 1:1 for obvious reasons.
Because mop is the legal tender, card terminals bill that as local currency without exception (not sure if true for gambling advances inside casino, never tried that)
Regulators are not as strong there (and dare I blame them for being closer to the motherland than us?) DCC is rife.
Because mop is the legal tender, card terminals bill that as local currency without exception (not sure if true for gambling advances inside casino, never tried that)
Regulators are not as strong there (and dare I blame them for being closer to the motherland than us?) DCC is rife.
I guess if your own currency is just 3% lower, and you happily accept "foreign" cash at 1:1 rate, lots of HK people won't even bother to change money but just use their local one as exchange would eat up parts anyway plus then they would get stuck with leftovers. With credit cards, and especially DCC, it's a different matter, though, obviously.
Jul 22, 2014 | 9:29 am
#828
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
If coming from HK and dining/shopping at chain establishments it is definitely advantageous to use cards.
And (a bit Quisling at this) using Unionpay in particular - low rates (almost at the peg - 0.971), no DCC, good acceptance and decent rewards (1 mile per $6 paid)
And (a bit Quisling at this) using Unionpay in particular - low rates (almost at the peg - 0.971), no DCC, good acceptance and decent rewards (1 mile per $6 paid)
Jul 22, 2014 | 9:46 am
#829
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Thanks for the explanation, it's some time ago I was in Macao last (3 years imho) so my knowledge, especially about DCC, is a bit outdated. I remember they also preferred getting paid in HK$, and Casino gambling areas were (and most certainly still are) 100% HK$ only.
I guess if your own currency is just 3% lower, and you happily accept "foreign" cash at 1:1 rate, lots of HK people won't even bother to change money but just use their local one as exchange would eat up parts anyway plus then they would get stuck with leftovers. With credit cards, and especially DCC, it's a different matter, though, obviously.
I guess if your own currency is just 3% lower, and you happily accept "foreign" cash at 1:1 rate, lots of HK people won't even bother to change money but just use their local one as exchange would eat up parts anyway plus then they would get stuck with leftovers. With credit cards, and especially DCC, it's a different matter, though, obviously.
I do remember for cash transactions being able to request change in HKD without a problem. The two or three times we took a taxi they were happy to oblige, and I remember some fast food places giving change in both Patacas and HKD.
I see that the Venetian is still pulling the DCC scam.
What I can do if we stay there this time around is be upfront about being billed in Patacas and settling the bill in Patacas. Back in July 2011 I was ignorant of DCC, and I didn't know I had been hit until after I had gotten back home. This was the first place where I got hit involuntarily with DCC. I always knew paying in local currency was best, but I had always been given the quote slip in Taiwan. I thought it had something to do with the MOP:HKD exchange rate when I was seeing an amount 3% higher than what it ought to have been. On an 830 USD hotel bill that was a nice $25 profit they made on me. I bet they haven't changed their system in three years, but I definitely wasn't asked if I wanted to be billed in USD.I don't know why DCC seems to be rampant in Taiwan because I don't see many tourists there even in Taipei. I get it in HK, Macau, or even Mainland China where you have a lot of foreign currency cards, but I'm wondering how this gets to be a problem. Perhaps the acquirers are the ones pushing DCC to the machines as evidenced by certain POS terminals not even allowing a merchant who's willing to work with the customer to disable DCC?
Jul 22, 2014 | 10:38 am
#830
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(At least the carbon one) I thought these slips were banned after 2011:
No tick box (outside of Europe), "no commission" when this is blatantly untrue (the currency peg means there is no rate but 0.971...the slip rate is 0.997)
No tick box (outside of Europe), "no commission" when this is blatantly untrue (the currency peg means there is no rate but 0.971...the slip rate is 0.997)
Jul 22, 2014 | 10:52 am
#831
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But in places we don't go to often (like Venetian) we don't know which is the real case - a helpless merchant or a lying merchant.
Jul 22, 2014 | 11:40 am
#832
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In some cases this may be true http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...l#post16343265 .
But in places we don't go to often (like Venetian) we don't know which is the real case - a helpless merchant or a lying merchant.
But in places we don't go to often (like Venetian) we don't know which is the real case - a helpless merchant or a lying merchant.
I'd suspect in a lot of these cases the acquirers steer the payment terminals toward DCC such that disabling it is extremely unintuitive or the non-preferred option. It's just like the ANZ terminal in Brisbane at the coffee shop. The cashier was saying, "Oh. Press OK." The terminal was saying, "Accept exchange 1.03566 AUD?" or something similarly esoteric. If I hadn't had the terminal in my possession we would have had a problem because the cashier would have repeatedly pressed OK. I had to pause for 10 seconds to make sure I pressed the correct button (cancel) because that move was critical to generating the DCC free slip.
Jul 22, 2014 | 2:03 pm
#833
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: BFS
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I have always had this issue in mainland Europe, however my recent trip to Lithuania showed that some places are still untouched - DCC in sight!
I've also spent the morning educating colleagues in how to avoid Ryanair's sky high DCC... How they get away with such a high mark up is unbelievable.
I've also spent the morning educating colleagues in how to avoid Ryanair's sky high DCC... How they get away with such a high mark up is unbelievable.
Jul 22, 2014 | 6:38 pm
#834
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Re Majuki - also it's an effective piece of social engineering.
Turns out the hubby of the hongkongcard.comer actually agreed to DCC in the Chevignon case.
For the uninitiated it's asking "do 1,109 x (100/103) x (1+your bank foreign currency conversion charge" in your head in 5 seconds.
(Though I don't know what is going through the head of that hubby, for MOP1,109 = HKD1,109.09 (MOP/HKD > 1) is definitely a stinker of a deal.
Turns out the hubby of the hongkongcard.comer actually agreed to DCC in the Chevignon case.
For the uninitiated it's asking "do 1,109 x (100/103) x (1+your bank foreign currency conversion charge" in your head in 5 seconds.
(Though I don't know what is going through the head of that hubby, for MOP1,109 = HKD1,109.09 (MOP/HKD > 1) is definitely a stinker of a deal.
Jul 22, 2014 | 8:50 pm
#835
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Re Majuki - also it's an effective piece of social engineering.
Turns out the hubby of the hongkongcard.comer actually agreed to DCC in the Chevignon case.
For the uninitiated it's asking "do 1,109 x (100/103) x (1+your bank foreign currency conversion charge" in your head in 5 seconds.
(Though I don't know what is going through the head of that hubby, for MOP1,109 = HKD1,109.09 (MOP/HKD > 1) is definitely a stinker of a deal.
Turns out the hubby of the hongkongcard.comer actually agreed to DCC in the Chevignon case.
For the uninitiated it's asking "do 1,109 x (100/103) x (1+your bank foreign currency conversion charge" in your head in 5 seconds.
(Though I don't know what is going through the head of that hubby, for MOP1,109 = HKD1,109.09 (MOP/HKD > 1) is definitely a stinker of a deal.
Jul 22, 2014 | 9:30 pm
#836
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It's just like the ANZ terminal in Brisbane at the coffee shop. The cashier was saying, "Oh. Press OK." The terminal was saying, "Accept exchange 1.03566 AUD?" or something similarly esoteric. If I hadn't had the terminal in my possession we would have had a problem because the cashier would have repeatedly pressed OK. I had to pause for 10 seconds to make sure I pressed the correct button (cancel) because that move was critical to generating the DCC free slip.
Jul 22, 2014 | 10:37 pm
#837
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
They buy something and they're told it costs 200. They have no clue so ask how much is that in real money or maybe they do say how much is that in American money. Today, of course, every last smart phone (even the old pre smartphone mobiles) has a calculator and even has a currency exchange key but they're too lazy to use that. Now picture going into the same shop and the clerk telling you that they can write the charge up in dollars if you wish and it is whatever in dollars. Maybe they ask which is better. Or the clerk starts throwing out the lies how you can lock in the exchange rate by doing it now or perhaps the clerk says nothing and presents you with a dcc'd sales draft to sign and if you start asking tells you it's a great rate and to compare it with the bank rates in the windows (of course we know the bank rates in the window are for cash and far far worse than the rate the cc companhy will give even if you're moronic enough to use a cc with the asinine should be illegal 3% ftf) or they may tell you the rate in your currency is shown for your convenience and is an approximation and you're really being charged in euro or it's done automatically by the terminal and they have no control over it (an advantage of course perhaps of chip and pin if you are asked for your pin before the fatefaul moment the exchange is done by the terminal) or sorry once it's done the transaction can not be undone (we've discussed that right here just in the last few posts). Or another is this will avoid the credit card foreign currency exchange fee of the naughty credit card company. I've even seen in some Caribean countries the lie that the government requires all purchases be converted to US dollars for Americans. Whether the cashier believes any of this is moot, those are the lies they're trained to tell.
So ultimately knowing how naive many travelers are, what do you think is going to happen? That's what keeps dcc going. (BTW you might find interesting some of the brochures for merchants outlining the advantages of dcc and of how their customers love to be quoted the price in a currency they understand!)
Jul 23, 2014 | 12:01 am
#838
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When you witness a tourist confused about the exchange rate, do you make an attempt to educate that person, or do you just engage in a moment of schadenfreude knowing that the tourist is about to be ripped off with DCC (plus likely a 3% FTF card)? Truthfully, I've never seen a DCC transaction where the person was demanding to pay in "real money". In all of the cases I've seen, the DCC happens without the customer realizing it, and the merchant doesn't say anything. Before I got educated on what DCC was, I was unknowingly hit a couple of times. In none of those instances did the staff at the hotel indicate that DCC was happening, and I didn't realize that I had been billed USD at an extremely unfavorable exchange rate (luckily on a 0% FTF card).
Furthermore, it's instinctive to retreat to something you know, so when asked the question, "Do you want to use EUR or USD?" people will usually reply, "Oh... USD!" But this is no different than the post from the other day about the person selecting HKD over MOP. It's just an issue of familiarity and what the instinctive reaction from the person will be. Other people would be surprised that it's an option. "You mean I can pay in <issued card currency>?" The cashier is just likely to respond, "Yes." I have never, not once, heard a merchant extoll the supposed benefits of DCC. In contrast, the only time that I've heard the lies start is when a customer in the know is attempting to get out of a forced DCC situation.
When you witness these situations in the wild, it is a perfect opportunity to educate the person. Give the person access to the tools to get the current exchange rates. Tell the person that it's always better to pay in the local currency because the credit card will get the best exchange rate. Avoid letting the merchant say they can offer you a known exchange rate upfront because it's far worse than what you'd get from Visa/MC. Finally, if the person is using a card with a FTF, let that person know of options for cards without FTF. Sure, some people might not want the help or advice, but in my experience most have said, "Thanks for the information. I didn't know that before!"
Jul 23, 2014 | 12:07 am
#839
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At least you know it has something to do with the exchange rate. The cashier has to press cancel against "Print next receipt?" in order to get out of Global Payments Maldives DCC.
Jul 23, 2014 | 12:27 am
#840
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Although HK is not as clean and organized as London, I would say the difference between HK/Macau is quite similar to London/Paris. HK and Macau even have a 2-hour water in between, too...
Last time I was in Macau, I couldn't find bus stations, as I did not in Paris this time...