Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Jul 23, 2014 | 12:51 am
#841
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,707
Some places even have signs to that effect. These signs are invariably in English, regardless of the local language, which tells you exactly who they are targeting.
Jul 23, 2014 | 12:52 am
#842
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
I will say two things one time and stop before I send this thread down a tangent that will earn a one-way ticket into OMNI/PR territory. First, you interject insistently that credit card surcharges, foreign transaction fees, etc. should be illegal, yet you freely have admitted to charging surcharges to your own customers. Second, I don't know what it is with you and America bashing. DCC is a problem that affects more than just Americans using their cards overseas. Yes, we've all seen the ugly American stereotype abroad, but the obnoxious tourist can be different nationalities depending on the location.
When you witness a tourist confused about the exchange rate, do you make an attempt to educate that person, or do you just engage in a moment of schadenfreude knowing that the tourist is about to be ripped off with DCC (plus likely a 3% FTF card)? Truthfully, I've never seen a DCC transaction where the person was demanding to pay in "real money". In all of the cases I've seen, the DCC happens without the customer realizing it, and the merchant doesn't say anything. Before I got educated on what DCC was, I was unknowingly hit a couple of times. In none of those instances did the staff at the hotel indicate that DCC was happening, and I didn't realize that I had been billed USD at an extremely unfavorable exchange rate (luckily on a 0% FTF card).
Furthermore, it's instinctive to retreat to something you know, so when asked the question, "Do you want to use EUR or USD?" people will usually reply, "Oh... USD!" But this is no different than the post from the other day about the person selecting HKD over MOP. It's just an issue of familiarity and what the instinctive reaction from the person will be. Other people would be surprised that it's an option. "You mean I can pay in <issued card currency>?" The cashier is just likely to respond, "Yes." I have never, not once, heard a merchant extoll the supposed benefits of DCC. In contrast, the only time that I've heard the lies start is when a customer in the know is attempting to get out of a forced DCC situation.
When you witness these situations in the wild, it is a perfect opportunity to educate the person. Give the person access to the tools to get the current exchange rates. Tell the person that it's always better to pay in the local currency because the credit card will get the best exchange rate. Avoid letting the merchant say they can offer you a known exchange rate upfront because it's far worse than what you'd get from Visa/MC. Finally, if the person is using a card with a FTF, let that person know of options for cards without FTF. Sure, some people might not want the help or advice, but in my experience most have said, "Thanks for the information. I didn't know that before!"
When you witness a tourist confused about the exchange rate, do you make an attempt to educate that person, or do you just engage in a moment of schadenfreude knowing that the tourist is about to be ripped off with DCC (plus likely a 3% FTF card)? Truthfully, I've never seen a DCC transaction where the person was demanding to pay in "real money". In all of the cases I've seen, the DCC happens without the customer realizing it, and the merchant doesn't say anything. Before I got educated on what DCC was, I was unknowingly hit a couple of times. In none of those instances did the staff at the hotel indicate that DCC was happening, and I didn't realize that I had been billed USD at an extremely unfavorable exchange rate (luckily on a 0% FTF card).
Furthermore, it's instinctive to retreat to something you know, so when asked the question, "Do you want to use EUR or USD?" people will usually reply, "Oh... USD!" But this is no different than the post from the other day about the person selecting HKD over MOP. It's just an issue of familiarity and what the instinctive reaction from the person will be. Other people would be surprised that it's an option. "You mean I can pay in <issued card currency>?" The cashier is just likely to respond, "Yes." I have never, not once, heard a merchant extoll the supposed benefits of DCC. In contrast, the only time that I've heard the lies start is when a customer in the know is attempting to get out of a forced DCC situation.
When you witness these situations in the wild, it is a perfect opportunity to educate the person. Give the person access to the tools to get the current exchange rates. Tell the person that it's always better to pay in the local currency because the credit card will get the best exchange rate. Avoid letting the merchant say they can offer you a known exchange rate upfront because it's far worse than what you'd get from Visa/MC. Finally, if the person is using a card with a FTF, let that person know of options for cards without FTF. Sure, some people might not want the help or advice, but in my experience most have said, "Thanks for the information. I didn't know that before!"
Now that we've settled that back to dcc. Yes I did hear the woman in Louis Vuitton many years ago ask a clerk how much a price quoted at the time in French Francs how much that was in real money and I think you know how naive Americans are about currencies and many can't understand why people don't take dollars. Of course it riles me up, too, when a person say in Euroland is buying something and holds out a bunch of coins and says take what the price is (in almost all cases the merchant is 100% honest but still how hard is it after a day or two to learn the currency?)
About three years ago, I did an organized coach tour of Ireland and became very friendly with a couple with whom I ate dinner every night. Now the birthplace of dcc was Ireland where it was born and raised. So it was the night before we were visiting Blarney Castle and on every one of these tours that includes kissing the Blarney Stone (if you can climb the steps and can get over the fact that little Irish boys make wee wee on it) and a stop for lunch and shopping at Blarney Mills (where of course nothing is a bargain but you know women have to shop while the man pays). Anyway, we were discussing money and I made the point of my earlier visits to Ireland and Blarney Castle and how they had to watch out for dcc.
Anyway, during the break I was curious as to what was going on with dcc, not that I would buy anything there so I hung around the cashier. I was surprised that unlike my previous visits to Ireland, the cashiers now at least always asked if the customer wished to pay in euro or in whatever their currency was that came up on the terminal. In several cases customers asked which is better and in each case, the excuse was it is better to pay in your currency as yuo lock in the rate. I don't think it was my perogative to say anything to anybody when along came the couple I just spoke about buying souvenirs and sweaters and the like. Well the clerk asked them whether they wished to pay in euro or dollars and the lady, remember I had discussed this just the night before and told them just like Nancy Reagan to just say no, immediately said dollars. The clerk said good choice. I looked at her husband and just couldn't believe it.
Many people just don't care and/or just don't get it. That is what keeps dcc going despite what the travel books and the like say. Americans are tired of being bombarded with 24 hour clocks, with signs on the highways in kilometers (we're only 70 kilometers from... and looking at the thermometer on the coach and seeing it's 18 degrees and having no idea just how hot it is. At least if their purchasses are priced in dollars, they can handle it!
Jul 23, 2014 | 1:02 am
#843
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
And that's the problem right there. Many people don't care. On the university study abroad to Romania I was just on I encouraged everyone I know to get a Schwab account. Almost everyone either exchanged cash or used their debit card. One person was quite happy his bank "only" charged $3 per ATM withdrawal and 3% FTF. When I pointed out Schwab was free he said "who cares? $3 and 3% is so tiny anyway". Terrible for a business student to not realise how huge that is!
Jul 23, 2014 | 7:04 am
#844
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
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I have, a couple of times. Usually something like "we can do the conversion for you so you know exactly how much you'll be charged" or "... so the bank doesn't rip you off".
Some places even have signs to that effect. These signs are invariably in English, regardless of the local language, which tells you exactly who they are targeting.
Some places even have signs to that effect. These signs are invariably in English, regardless of the local language, which tells you exactly who they are targeting.
I still make an attempt to educate the customers, but it's hard for some of them to say no in these situations. However, usually if you can get it into people's heads that they're being ripped off or that the merchant cheated them even by a little amount it is instinctive that people will do everything to make sure they're not fooled in the same way again.Now that we've settled that back to dcc. Yes I did hear the woman in Louis Vuitton many years ago ask a clerk how much a price quoted at the time in French Francs how much that was in real money and I think you know how naive Americans are about currencies and many can't understand why people don't take dollars. Of course it riles me up, too, when a person say in Euroland is buying something and holds out a bunch of coins and says take what the price is (in almost all cases the merchant is 100% honest but still how hard is it after a day or two to learn the currency?)
I was surprised that unlike my previous visits to Ireland, the cashiers now at least always asked if the customer wished to pay in euro or in whatever their currency was that came up on the terminal. In several cases customers asked which is better and in each case, the excuse was it is better to pay in your currency as yuo lock in the rate. I don't think it was my perogative to say anything to anybody when along came the couple I just spoke about buying souvenirs and sweaters and the like. Well the clerk asked them whether they wished to pay in euro or dollars and the lady, remember I had discussed this just the night before and told them just like Nancy Reagan to just say no, immediately said dollars. The clerk said good choice. I looked at her husband and just couldn't believe it.
Many people just don't care and/or just don't get it. That is what keeps dcc going despite what the travel books and the like say. Americans are tired of being bombarded with 24 hour clocks, with signs on the highways in kilometers (we're only 70 kilometers from... and looking at the thermometer on the coach and seeing it's 18 degrees and having no idea just how hot it is. At least if their purchasses are priced in dollars, they can handle it!
Many people just don't care and/or just don't get it. That is what keeps dcc going despite what the travel books and the like say. Americans are tired of being bombarded with 24 hour clocks, with signs on the highways in kilometers (we're only 70 kilometers from... and looking at the thermometer on the coach and seeing it's 18 degrees and having no idea just how hot it is. At least if their purchasses are priced in dollars, they can handle it!
And that's the problem right there. Many people don't care. On the university study abroad to Romania I was just on I encouraged everyone I know to get a Schwab account. Almost everyone either exchanged cash or used their debit card. One person was quite happy his bank "only" charged $3 per ATM withdrawal and 3% FTF. When I pointed out Schwab was free he said "who cares? $3 and 3% is so tiny anyway". Terrible for a business student to not realise how huge that is!
This is largely why the DCC scam is allowed to continue. In most cases, you've got a small purchase, and the absolute value of the DCC markup is under 1 USD. In this case, a card issuer is likely to credit directly rather than file a chargeback. Most people would say, "Come on. It's only $0.29. Who cares?" However, there are cases like hotels or larger purchases where things don't quite add up, and then you realize you've been charged a 3% DCC fee on a $2000 equivalent hotel bill which makes things $60 higher. (Add in another 3% fee if your card charges one.) This is what will get a lot of people to get it. If you're going to accept the "great" exchange rate, why do you still get slammed with a 3% FTF? What convenience or service has the merchant provided you exactly? You just paid 6% more on that purchase! This is pretty effective at riling people up.
Jul 23, 2014 | 8:08 am
#845
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Yes I did hear the woman in Louis Vuitton many years ago ask a clerk how much a price quoted at the time in French Francs how much that was in real money and I think you know how naive Americans are about currencies and many can't understand why people don't take dollars.
Yes, some people are ignorant, but it's certainly not country specific.
Jul 23, 2014 | 7:19 pm
#846
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
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"Today, of course, every last smart phone (even the old pre smartphone mobiles) has a calculator and even has a currency exchange key but they're too lazy to use that."
Calculator, yes. Currency exchange function (in the sense exchange rates are pre-loaded) no.
But most importantly (unless you're a spending manufacturer always needing to do sums on the fly) practice in doing quick calculations - rare.
Roaming data rates and people's further laziness in not setting up data overseas <-- further problem.
Calculator, yes. Currency exchange function (in the sense exchange rates are pre-loaded) no.
But most importantly (unless you're a spending manufacturer always needing to do sums on the fly) practice in doing quick calculations - rare.
Roaming data rates and people's further laziness in not setting up data overseas <-- further problem.
Jul 23, 2014 | 7:23 pm
#847
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
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Here's another one - Doubletree Guangzhou (acquirer bank of china) http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12533&p=5 #42
Apparently per hotel manager, cancel has to be pressed before transaction completes. Cashier on duty didn't so that so HKD was charged even tho RMB ticked.
Manager promised to comp by exec room upgrade and wine for august stay tho, so chargeback not contemplated.
Apparently per hotel manager, cancel has to be pressed before transaction completes. Cashier on duty didn't so that so HKD was charged even tho RMB ticked.
Manager promised to comp by exec room upgrade and wine for august stay tho, so chargeback not contemplated.
Jul 23, 2014 | 9:43 pm
#848
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
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It's similar to the Frankfurt Marriott where the general manager made it right by posting a handsome number of Marriott Rewards points in my account or offering to credit the difference in EUR to my card. I just took the points and chalked it up to experience for next time. ^
Jul 23, 2014 | 10:20 pm
#849
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similar I guess to why supermarket brand ice cream for sale in the UK at just over 1 before VAT (at their retail price, not to mention the volume discount) sells for S$6 in SIN at one supermarket.
Jul 23, 2014 | 10:22 pm
#850
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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"Today, of course, every last smart phone (even the old pre smartphone mobiles) has a calculator and even has a currency exchange key but they're too lazy to use that."
Calculator, yes. Currency exchange function (in the sense exchange rates are pre-loaded) no.
But most importantly (unless you're a spending manufacturer always needing to do sums on the fly) practice in doing quick calculations - rare.
Roaming data rates and people's further laziness in not setting up data overseas <-- further problem.
Calculator, yes. Currency exchange function (in the sense exchange rates are pre-loaded) no.
But most importantly (unless you're a spending manufacturer always needing to do sums on the fly) practice in doing quick calculations - rare.
Roaming data rates and people's further laziness in not setting up data overseas <-- further problem.
Jul 23, 2014 | 10:40 pm
#851
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
Not consistent. Let's try airports around Asia:
HKG, ICN: yes very good
SIN: good but it drops a bit
CTS: only in certain areas. I remember going to the airport pharmacy, flipping on Google Translate to translate throat lozenges into Japanese, realising my wifi's dropped out and having to backtrack to the check-in area to get the translation and entering the pharmacy again
BKK: you have to find the service kiosk and get the access code strip. Even if you do find the service kiosk, it's slow
TPE, BOM, HAN, SGN, DAD, REP: not available except in lounges or restaurants. They really like locking down their wifi.
(This is for Europe) A way around this is to simply display the card currency amount. Don't display the exchange rate, not at the selection rate anyway. Takes more mental math to work out and a lot of travellers fail at this.
(Not valid in rest of the world because exchange rate is mandated to be published. But another trick can be to state the exchange rate in the way contrary to usual practice in the merchant jurisdiction (direct --> indirect or vice versa) and challenge cardholders to do inversions in their heads)
HKG, ICN: yes very good
SIN: good but it drops a bit
CTS: only in certain areas. I remember going to the airport pharmacy, flipping on Google Translate to translate throat lozenges into Japanese, realising my wifi's dropped out and having to backtrack to the check-in area to get the translation and entering the pharmacy again
BKK: you have to find the service kiosk and get the access code strip. Even if you do find the service kiosk, it's slow
TPE, BOM, HAN, SGN, DAD, REP: not available except in lounges or restaurants. They really like locking down their wifi.
(Not valid in rest of the world because exchange rate is mandated to be published. But another trick can be to state the exchange rate in the way contrary to usual practice in the merchant jurisdiction (direct --> indirect or vice versa) and challenge cardholders to do inversions in their heads)
Last edited by percysmith; Jul 23, 2014 at 10:54 pm
Jul 24, 2014 | 4:44 am
#852
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
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Posts: 664
Wifi is never reliable.
AT&T has this world data package, for $120 you get 800MB for a month. It's good because it is not charged by days, and it is calculated across different carriers (good for hoppers in Europe).
Anyway, I didn't see one instance where DCC will be beneficial to the customer...
AT&T has this world data package, for $120 you get 800MB for a month. It's good because it is not charged by days, and it is calculated across different carriers (good for hoppers in Europe).
Anyway, I didn't see one instance where DCC will be beneficial to the customer...
Jul 24, 2014 | 5:26 am
#853
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Wifi is never reliable.
AT&T has this world data package, for $120 you get 800MB for a month. It's good because it is not charged by days, and it is calculated across different carriers (good for hoppers in Europe).
Anyway, I didn't see one instance where DCC will be beneficial to the customer...
AT&T has this world data package, for $120 you get 800MB for a month. It's good because it is not charged by days, and it is calculated across different carriers (good for hoppers in Europe).
Anyway, I didn't see one instance where DCC will be beneficial to the customer...
Jul 24, 2014 | 5:39 am
#854
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 46,318
Jul 24, 2014 | 5:52 am
#855
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Wifi is never reliable.
AT&T has this world data package, for $120 you get 800MB for a month. It's good because it is not charged by days, and it is calculated across different carriers (good for hoppers in Europe).
Anyway, I didn't see one instance where DCC will be beneficial to the customer...
AT&T has this world data package, for $120 you get 800MB for a month. It's good because it is not charged by days, and it is calculated across different carriers (good for hoppers in Europe).
Anyway, I didn't see one instance where DCC will be beneficial to the customer...
While I'm sure someone somewhere could provide a DCC case that was beneficial to the consumer, the vast majority are not. The proper way to think about DCC is that you are unlikely to get a better exchange rate from DCC vs the Visa/MC rates and far more likely to do worse.