Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Jul 20, 2014 | 12:21 am
#796
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
I think we both made a mistake here based on the listed benefits:
- Chase fees charged at a non-Chase ATM
- Fees charged by the other bank for ATM access are refunded by Chase up to 5 times per statement cycle
- No Chase exchange rate adjustment fees for debit card usage or ATM withdrawals abroad
But, having $250000 only get you 5 waivers per cycle... That's expensive. Totally not worth it...
BTW, does Schwab or Fidelity charge fees on incoming and outgoing wire? Maybe on this subject CPC has an (expensive) advantage?
This would be the correct thread. Perhaps someone else can chime in with direct experience, but it seems like you might try to be hit with DCC when booking on Norwegian Air Shuttle according to this source. When you go to purchase the ticket you would be able to see the denomination of the transaction. I suspect the native currency would be NOK, and I would decline any attempts to "lock in" or "guarantee" the exchange rate. This is just a marketing scam to force you into accepting DCC.
If your card charges no FTF, always use the local currency. There is no way the merchant can give a exchange rate to let you pay less using non-local currency, never!
As JeffJag points out, even if your card is USD denominated, it is still safer to pay the local currency and thus paying also the FTF, since USD transactions charged abroad can also trigger FTF, and the exchange rates are always bad!
Be aware!
P.S. DCC doesn't have to be in just one form. Any currency conversion done by either the merchant or the transaction processor can be called DCC.
Jul 20, 2014 | 7:31 am
#797
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Looks like they made some changes to the benefits. In May when I visited one of their branch in South Cal, a banker gave me a pamphlet regarding the benefits of CPC. I don't recall seeing the term "Chase Fee" on that (what might be a chase fee, hah...?), and the benefit of having the black debit card is to have no FTF. Looks like they learned a new feature from Schwab and others, to reimburse ATM fees charged by the ATMs.
But, having $250000 only get you 5 waivers per cycle... That's expensive. Totally not worth it...
BTW, does Schwab or Fidelity charge fees on incoming and outgoing wire? Maybe on this subject CPC has an (expensive) advantage?
But, having $250000 only get you 5 waivers per cycle... That's expensive. Totally not worth it...
BTW, does Schwab or Fidelity charge fees on incoming and outgoing wire? Maybe on this subject CPC has an (expensive) advantage?
Jul 20, 2014 | 8:12 am
#798
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Jul 20, 2014 | 8:38 am
#799
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Looks like Nor Air's system is so much like a Tax-Free store like DFS, where you have 10+ choices of currencies (useless though).
If your card charges no FTF, always use the local currency. There is no way the merchant can give a exchange rate to let you pay less using non-local currency, never!
As JeffJag points out, even if your card is USD denominated, it is still safer to pay the local currency and thus paying also the FTF, since USD transactions charged abroad can also trigger FTF, and the exchange rates are always bad!
Be aware!
P.S. DCC doesn't have to be in just one form. Any currency conversion done by either the merchant or the transaction processor can be called DCC.
If your card charges no FTF, always use the local currency. There is no way the merchant can give a exchange rate to let you pay less using non-local currency, never!
As JeffJag points out, even if your card is USD denominated, it is still safer to pay the local currency and thus paying also the FTF, since USD transactions charged abroad can also trigger FTF, and the exchange rates are always bad!
Be aware!
P.S. DCC doesn't have to be in just one form. Any currency conversion done by either the merchant or the transaction processor can be called DCC.
) the allowable compelling evidence is:For a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) Transaction not involving issuers or acquirers in Visa Europe, both of the following:
- Evidence that the cardholder chose DCC, such as a copy of the transaction receipt showing a checked accept box or evidence the DCC solution requires nonelectric selection by the cardholder and the choice cannot be made by the merchant or the merchant representative.
- A statement from the acquirer confirming that the DCC choice was by the cardholder and not the merchant.
I don't know what the part about acquirers in Europe is, but I'd have to search for additional information. But it seems in Asia, Australia, and other places where we see DCC, both of the above line items would have to be true. It seems as though the merchant has a high burden of proof here, and the acquirer probably would pass the buck in this case to the merchant. It is now just an education campaign to let people know they're being ripped off by DCC and to file Reason Code 76 chargebacks when it happens.
Jul 20, 2014 | 8:44 am
#800
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That was my understanding, but the banker seemed to indicate $100k minimum as the only requirement. I was upfront in saying that there was no chance I would move my investments over to Chase.
Jul 20, 2014 | 8:41 pm
#801
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Looks like Nor Air's system is so much like a Tax-Free store like DFS, where you have 10+ choices of currencies (useless though).
If your card charges no FTF, always use the local currency. There is no way the merchant can give a exchange rate to let you pay less using non-local currency, never!
As JeffJag points out, even if your card is USD denominated, it is still safer to pay the local currency and thus paying also the FTF, since USD transactions charged abroad can also trigger FTF, and the exchange rates are always bad!
Be aware!
P.S. DCC doesn't have to be in just one form. Any currency conversion done by either the merchant or the transaction processor can be called DCC.
If your card charges no FTF, always use the local currency. There is no way the merchant can give a exchange rate to let you pay less using non-local currency, never!
As JeffJag points out, even if your card is USD denominated, it is still safer to pay the local currency and thus paying also the FTF, since USD transactions charged abroad can also trigger FTF, and the exchange rates are always bad!
Be aware!
P.S. DCC doesn't have to be in just one form. Any currency conversion done by either the merchant or the transaction processor can be called DCC.
My expeirence with the two site's multi-currency function is that the conversion is generally fair (definitely fairer than DCC).
And as my cards have Foreign Currency Conversion Charge of 1.95% and nil (if we're careful about which cards we use) HKD payment FTF, I still find it's better to pay in HKD and skip the 1.95%.
(I have a card that earns HK$3/mile (2.6 miles/US$) on overseas spend regardless of HKD or not. No FTF (at least in practice))
Jul 20, 2014 | 8:52 pm
#802
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But it seems in Asia, Australia, and other places where we see DCC, both of the above line items would have to be true. It seems as though the merchant has a high burden of proof here, and the acquirer probably would pass the buck in this case to the merchant. It is now just an education campaign to let people know they're being ripped off by DCC and to file Reason Code 76 chargebacks when it happens.
But in the case of DCC issuers comply with this as unwillingly as EU airlines comply with EU261/2004 requirements to inform passengers of their rights.
It seems to be an onerous obligation (having to file a lot of paperwork but they don't get paid for it). Otherwise i don't know why Schwab will simply pay cardholders off out of pocket.
Even issuers here in HK tend to pass the buck unless you've a prima facie case (carbon card slip or snapshot of a merchant one (and from the Maldives experience your smartphone will always fxck up when you try to take a quick snapshot!)). Of course we hold the sword of damocles over them if we have the prima facie case cos we can take it to the (overstaffed) bank regulator HK Monetary Authority and let them harrass the banks, but I don't think the CFPB is so accomodating or resourceful.
Jul 20, 2014 | 9:34 pm
#803
Join Date: May 2007
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Back to the topic of DCC.
With my most recent experience of DCC in London and Paris, based on 100+ transactions with 4-5 soft DCC (self-selecting currency) and 0 hard DCC, can we assume DCC in London and Paris is not bad at all? I was quite surprised the French didn't pull the "it's for your convenience" one on me... I went to Outlets, 5-star hotels, Michelin 3* restaurants, all sorts of places you would be expecting DCC, both in London and Paris, but no there were not...
Any others have experience to the contrary?
This only applies to London and Paris. I understand things would be much different if locations are changed.
With my most recent experience of DCC in London and Paris, based on 100+ transactions with 4-5 soft DCC (self-selecting currency) and 0 hard DCC, can we assume DCC in London and Paris is not bad at all? I was quite surprised the French didn't pull the "it's for your convenience" one on me... I went to Outlets, 5-star hotels, Michelin 3* restaurants, all sorts of places you would be expecting DCC, both in London and Paris, but no there were not...
Any others have experience to the contrary?
This only applies to London and Paris. I understand things would be much different if locations are changed.
Jul 20, 2014 | 10:08 pm
#804
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The reply of "it's automatic" won't hold up in a chargeback situation. I would have refused a refund and asked for a voided transaction, but I would still file a dispute. If the issuer wants to eat the cost, I'm fine with that, but it doesn't help solve the problem. This is why we need to be as specific as possible when requesting the proper chargeback codes and specifically the amount by which we were overcharged.
I agree that my phone malfunctions right as I'm about to take a picture. If there is a tick box, I'll make sure I get a photo of that receipt. In places where the quote slip is honored such as Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, HK (sometimes), Macau (rarely), I'll make sure that the final receipt is free of DCC. At, hotels, I'll make sure to specify the local currency when checking in. It's unfortunate that such a defensive posture is required, but merchants refuse to give a free and clear choice, I'll continue to fight DCC.
I agree that my phone malfunctions right as I'm about to take a picture. If there is a tick box, I'll make sure I get a photo of that receipt. In places where the quote slip is honored such as Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, HK (sometimes), Macau (rarely), I'll make sure that the final receipt is free of DCC. At, hotels, I'll make sure to specify the local currency when checking in. It's unfortunate that such a defensive posture is required, but merchants refuse to give a free and clear choice, I'll continue to fight DCC.
Jul 20, 2014 | 10:18 pm
#805
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I had DCC imposed on me at the Hotel Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse back in March. The desk clerk claimed it was "automatic" when she swiped my CapitalOne Visa card. I made her cancel the charge and re-do it in Euros, but she refunded the first transaction in Euros instead of USD, so in the end I was still hit with their 3% DCC scam.
Jul 20, 2014 | 11:42 pm
#806
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Jul 20, 2014 | 11:57 pm
#807
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If the [European] cashier says her terminal can only do refund not void, yes - do not refund it and dispute it instead.
Jul 21, 2014 | 5:31 am
#808
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On a somewhat related note, should I still deface a receipt and write "local option not offered" when it is simply an authorization hold upon check-in? The only place where this has happened has been the Novotel in Taoyuan Taiwan, but I didn't fight it too hard because it was only an authorization hold that I was told wouldn't actually get charged. It did end up falling off of my pending transactions after a few days, and I was able to settle the bill in TWD. However, I feel like not all places would be as honest.
Jul 21, 2014 | 5:48 am
#809
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On a somewhat related note, should I still deface a receipt and write "local option not offered" when it is simply an authorization hold upon check-in? The only place where this has happened has been the Novotel in Taoyuan Taiwan, but I didn't fight it too hard because it was only an authorization hold that I was told wouldn't actually get charged. It did end up falling off of my pending transactions after a few days, and I was able to settle the bill in TWD. However, I feel like not all places would be as honest.
I would suggest:
- for holds, hand over an Amex where accepted. One whose limits you don't plan to use.
- finalise with V/MC.
Jul 21, 2014 | 6:14 am
#810
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I don't get how any credit card terminal can lack a "void" mechanism. Mistakes occur sometimes accidentally sometimes deliberately. Something costs €23.00 and the merchant accidentally slips on the decimal point and enters €2300 and the purchase is authorized whether with dcc or not. You mean to tell me there is no way a merchant can void the transaction to correct the error? Or what in those situations where a merchant pulls the dcc scam without permissin of the scamee and rather than fight it, the scamee decided to pay cash. You mean to tell me in this situation the transaction cannot be voided? Again, I have two words for that and the first word is a synonym for a male cow.
One of the problems with a refund as opposed to a void from my understanding but I could be wrong is that if one is moronic enough to use a credit card with a ftf, the 3% is added to purchases and subtracted from refunds. I don't know if that is still the policy, indeed it was once but if it is, then you lose 6% on the transaction. That is why any payment system must included a provision for voids because errors happen even accidentally.
One of the problems with a refund as opposed to a void from my understanding but I could be wrong is that if one is moronic enough to use a credit card with a ftf, the 3% is added to purchases and subtracted from refunds. I don't know if that is still the policy, indeed it was once but if it is, then you lose 6% on the transaction. That is why any payment system must included a provision for voids because errors happen even accidentally.