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ConciergeMike May 18, 2009 11:14 am

What factors do you guys look at when you cite economics? Just fuel burn or more?

Anglo Large Clawed Otter May 18, 2009 11:17 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 11767377)
What factors do you guys look at when you cite economics? Just fuel burn or more?

To me, speed is a bigger factor than fuel burn. A few dozen knots difference in speed can make all the difference between serving 3x routes per day, or 4x. That extra route income more than makes up for any inefficiency in fuel-burn, IME.

rolov May 18, 2009 11:23 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 11767377)
What factors do you guys look at when you cite economics? Just fuel burn or more?

Name first, I just ordered 4 Beavers

sbm12 May 18, 2009 11:37 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 11767388)
To me, speed is a bigger factor than fuel burn. A few dozen knots difference in speed can make all the difference between serving 3x routes per day, or 4x. That extra route income more than makes up for any inefficiency in fuel-burn, IME.

Yes, but when one plane has a fuel burn of 600 and the other has a burn of 400 that is enough to make me think twice. The Russian jets seem to have VERY high fuel burn, but there aren't many alternatives that aren't "Western" in the 100+ seat range.

My calculations on the Falcon 30 suggest that I should be able to do 4 destinations of ~1100 miles each in a day. That gives me TPE, SHA, MNL and HGH from HAN. I even have time for a one-way on a 500ish mile route, I think.

Steph3n May 18, 2009 11:44 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 11767388)
To me, speed is a bigger factor than fuel burn. A few dozen knots difference in speed can make all the difference between serving 3x routes per day, or 4x. That extra route income more than makes up for any inefficiency in fuel-burn, IME.

I agree, speed is important, also fuel burn is part of it, and then capacity

The Falcon 30 is looking better than the Tu124 to me, and its much cheaper I can buy it without the wait and get that speed in several places sooner.
Not to mention it is from that old communist france :D

Steph3n May 18, 2009 11:45 am


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 11767480)
Yes, but when one plane has a fuel burn of 600 and the other has a burn of 400 that is enough to make me think twice. The Russian jets seem to have VERY high fuel burn, but there aren't many alternatives that aren't "Western" in the 100+ seat range.

My calculations on the Falcon 30 suggest that I should be able to do 4 destinations of ~1100 miles each in a day. That gives me TPE, SHA, MNL and HGH from HAN. I even have time for a one-way on a 500ish mile route, I think.

There are some ok russian jets, they are just costly in AM, some of them more costly than in real life!

But I agree on the Falcon 30 calcs I had been running through them and thinking the same. I am needing to get to NYC or LAX and it not take 8 hours of my planes time!

Anglo Large Clawed Otter May 18, 2009 11:54 am


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 11767480)
Yes, but when one plane has a fuel burn of 600 and the other has a burn of 400 that is enough to make me think twice. The Russian jets seem to have VERY high fuel burn, but there aren't many alternatives that aren't "Western" in the 100+ seat range.

My calculations on the Falcon 30 suggest that I should be able to do 4 destinations of ~1100 miles each in a day. That gives me TPE, SHA, MNL and HGH from HAN. I even have time for a one-way on a 500ish mile route, I think.

Some western jets are permissible. Fokkers are acceptable. Just no Boeing (which includes McDonnell Douglas) or Airbus. Lockheed fuel-pigs are ^ (because the L1011 is just too cool).

Anglo Large Clawed Otter May 18, 2009 11:59 am

I'm curious to find out what the economics are like on the Tu-154M, when I take my first delivery in Small World. It has promising capacity, speed and range, but 1300+ fuel burn. The Tu-154B is fairly profitable, but carries fewer pax much shorter distances.

So far, my best Commie aircraft in Small World have been the An-74 (not yet available in Third World), Yak-42D (impressive speed, great for short-hops), and Hanzhong Y-8 (good capacity, and very profitable if placed on short runs).

Shanghai Y-10 is a pig, and nearly useless. :td:

sbm12 May 18, 2009 12:00 pm


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 11767572)
Some western jets are permissible. Fokkers are acceptable. Just no Boeing (which includes McDonnell Douglas) or Airbus. Lockheed fuel-pigs are ^ (because the L1011 is just too cool).

Fokker maxes out at 84 seats. :(

I don't really love the look of the Tu124's numbers but the Tu134 doesn't look as bad. Still maxed out at too few seats, but not horrible operational specs.

I foresee Yaks, Iluyshins and maybe an HS121 Trident in future.

colpuck May 18, 2009 12:20 pm

Your moment of zen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUYhcYw1ksw

dergon darkhelm May 18, 2009 12:45 pm


Originally Posted by colpuck (Post 11767697)

Grrrr.....damn work internet acccess blocking youtube! :mad:

Hartmann May 18, 2009 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 11767388)
To me, speed is a bigger factor than fuel burn. A few dozen knots difference in speed can make all the difference between serving 3x routes per day, or 4x. That extra route income more than makes up for any inefficiency in fuel-burn, IME.

I look at speed and turn time. Some of the faster planes have a longer turn time and it really affects the availability of the aircraft.

ConciergeMike May 18, 2009 12:53 pm

It's costing me $260MM monthly to keep my fleet in the air. :eek:

CO 1E May 18, 2009 12:54 pm


Originally Posted by rolov (Post 11767246)
BTW TK's flight GRU-IST is roughly 6500 miles on the A330
JFK-DXB is something like 6800, there is no way that the TK flight goes non stop, It must go via DL's hub in DKR or something like that.

DKR is a real hub these days.

mnmag May 18, 2009 12:57 pm


Originally Posted by dergon darkhelm (Post 11767814)
Grrrr.....damn work internet acccess blocking youtube! :mad:

It can wait until you get home!! Really!


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