Economy Plus is here to stay
Feb 17, 2011, 4:21 pm
#121
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(joke)
Feb 17, 2011, 4:21 pm
#122
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Feb 17, 2011, 4:32 pm
#123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gawhite411 View Post
And it is obvious that is what will happen. Terribly disappointing to see CO keeping E+ and reducing F seats. I already have a hard time finding enough F inventory to buy and for those of us who pay for F, E+ is a poor substitute.
+1 Rather than say the sky is falling, why not voice our opinion that a reduction in F space will cause a significant exodus of elite flyers. Who's willing to accept defeat......lets keep it all!
Originally Posted by gawhite411 View Post
And it is obvious that is what will happen. Terribly disappointing to see CO keeping E+ and reducing F seats. I already have a hard time finding enough F inventory to buy and for those of us who pay for F, E+ is a poor substitute.
Let's wait and see how it shakes out. Scott's words, "This is yet to be decided. It’s an important decision, especially for our domestic fleet, and one we’re putting a lot of thought into." sound an awful lot like the company line on Economy Plus prior to today's announcement.
Feb 17, 2011, 4:37 pm
#124
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 456
When I used the term "sorry state of the merger", I was referring to UA flyers.
It has been very nice changes for CO flyers (other than B fare is way up), SWU, CR1, now E+.
But what do we get? Practically nothing.
We pray no "change", not even expecting any new goodies. Very sad, indeed.
Lack of competition only results in higher fares and benefit cuts.
Airline executives will get more bonus and share holders will be happy too. But consumers lose.
It has been very nice changes for CO flyers (other than B fare is way up), SWU, CR1, now E+.
But what do we get? Practically nothing.
We pray no "change", not even expecting any new goodies. Very sad, indeed.
Lack of competition only results in higher fares and benefit cuts.
Airline executives will get more bonus and share holders will be happy too. But consumers lose.
Your premise assumes that a future independent UA could/would have been able to continue providing its customers "all that they've become used to" in the past and still become a profitable airline year over year....
But what if that weren't the case?
Most analysts (and apparently a LOT of UA shareholders) concluded that UA wouldn't even survive another decade of financial mis-management or a multi-year bankruptcy, much less be profitable.
Many here have been so quick to (repeatedly) point out how "wonderful" everything was at UA before the merger, and how "terrible" everything has been since the Smisek-led management team came in and started "ruining" it all.
If you think our UA "benefits" are in jeopardy now, just imagine how much our CR1s, SWUs, and MP accounts would be worth if, instead of merging with CO, the company failed!!
I may not like everything about our "arranged marriage", but I certainly want it to succeed..... and, experience has taught me that criticizing the spouse (or bad-mouthing the in-laws) at every turn, isn't going to make the relationship a harmonious one.
[and for the record, let's not forget who UA's other two "back-ups" were.... a hook-up with US or a take-over by DL (thanks, but no thanks, Pardus)]
Last edited by tanlines; Feb 17, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Feb 17, 2011, 4:38 pm
#125
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Hi Everyone, I know we’ve all been on the edge of our seats regarding the fate of our Economy Plus product, and I believe the headline and press release says it all. Economy Plus is here to stay.
Specifically, we will be retaining our Economy Plus seating on all current United aircraft and will be adding an Economy Plus seating section to our fleet of Continental aircraft starting in 2012. To set expectations, this will be a multi-year effort, and the specific timing won’t be provided until we have a better sense of our modification schedule. Factors including aircraft availability, hangar schedules, are still being determined.
I’ll do my best to answer some your questions, starting with some obvious ones below:
I think those are the key points, but if I've missed anything please let me know.
Scott O’Leary
Managing Director, Customer Solutions
United Airlines
Specifically, we will be retaining our Economy Plus seating on all current United aircraft and will be adding an Economy Plus seating section to our fleet of Continental aircraft starting in 2012. To set expectations, this will be a multi-year effort, and the specific timing won’t be provided until we have a better sense of our modification schedule. Factors including aircraft availability, hangar schedules, are still being determined.
I’ll do my best to answer some your questions, starting with some obvious ones below:
- Why wait until 2012 to start? As with any major cabin retrofit program, there’s a fair amount of engineering and planning that needs to be done before we can start on the first aircraft. This is the amount of lead time we need to get the process started.
Fantastic, but as a ps flyer, I am a little nervous by the non-answer regarding ps service...hmmm. - Will Economy Plus be installed at the expense of First Class or Economy Class seats? This is yet to be decided. It’s an important decision, especially for our domestic fleet, and one we’re putting a lot of thought into.
- Will Elites still have complimentary access to Economy Plus? The short answer is yes. As many of you know, Continental and United Elites have different policies for accessing extra legroom seating. Currently, on Continental-operated flights, extra legroom seats (select bulkhead and exit row seats) are complimentary to OnePass Gold/Platinum/Presidential Platinum and Mileage Plus Premier Executive/1K/Global Services members in advance, and to all Elite members from both programs at check-in. On United-operated flights, Elite members of both programs have access to Economy Plus both in advance and at check-in. We will be harmonizing this policy in the coming year as we further synch up our two loyalty programs.
- What about the p.s. transcon product, 3-cabin First Class, and other configuration decisions? There are indeed several more aircraft configuration blanks to fill in, which we expect to announce throughout the year. Stay tuned!
Scott O’Leary
Managing Director, Customer Solutions
United Airlines
Feb 17, 2011, 4:51 pm
#126
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I dunno, if the governor called with a stay of execution, I'd be happy too.
Sure I was alive yesterday, so it doesn't buy me anything I don't have at that very moment. But now I can live to see tomorrow.
Feb 17, 2011, 4:53 pm
#127
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I doubt UA would eliminate UDU and make F a pay/instrument based upgrade.
Feb 17, 2011, 4:57 pm
#128
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Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart! Smart!
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Feb 17, 2011, 4:59 pm
#129
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I am not saying it's bad news. Obviously for CO elites E+ is a nice change.
But this doesn't dispute the fact that UA elites have very little to cheer for. We only hope that Smisek keeps status quo and doesn't take away what we have now.
When no news becomes good news and causes mass celebration, you know how sorry we feel about this merger.
But this doesn't dispute the fact that UA elites have very little to cheer for. We only hope that Smisek keeps status quo and doesn't take away what we have now.
When no news becomes good news and causes mass celebration, you know how sorry we feel about this merger.
In the long run, there is no difference between UA elites and CO elites. There will be one combined airline with combined frequent flyer members. At the end of the day, the merger is about combining the aircraft, network, services and staff from both airlines to create the largest airline in the world.
Feb 17, 2011, 5:01 pm
#130
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Do a little home engineering looking at seat maps. On the narrowbody aircraft, removing an F row provides more space than is needed. Removing 1 row in Y provides 31 inches which provides 6 to 8 rows of E+ depending on exit row configuration, etc. That matches 319/320's 6 or 7 rows of E+.
On aircraft with flatbed seats suck as the 757 and 777, it is very unlikely they will be touched. I would expect changes will be limited to Y.
On the CO 764 the position of the exit, galley and lav dictate that the changes be only in Y.
On aircraft with flatbed seats suck as the 757 and 777, it is very unlikely they will be touched. I would expect changes will be limited to Y.
On the CO 764 the position of the exit, galley and lav dictate that the changes be only in Y.
Give up one row of coach, upgrade six rows of coach. Net impact:
Minus 7 rows of regular coach
Plus 6 rows of E+
No change to first class
Give up one row of first class, upgrade seven rows of coach. Net impact:
Minus 7 rows of regular coach
Plus 7 rows of E+
Minus 1 row of to first class
Compared to first case, second case is:
Plus 1 row of E+
Minus 1 row of FC
Seems like a dumb choice to me unless UA/CO somehow thinks it can make more money on an E+ seat than a first class seat.
Feb 17, 2011, 5:03 pm
#132
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I largely stopped going after elite status after spending a year as a CO Gold without a single upgrade. This year I'm silver and got lucky on my one flight so far---an upgrade LAX-SFO. Last year after qualifying I had a great experience in E+ LAS-SFO.
As a low level elite with a Presidential Plus card this change really impacts me; I assume that upgrades will be few/far between and knowing that there is a pretty good chance I will end up in E+, along with the new watered down Rapid Rewards, means that I will be more likely to choose UA over WN for my local hops along the west coast. Thanks Scott and everyone else at Smith Street/Wacker Drive!
As a low level elite with a Presidential Plus card this change really impacts me; I assume that upgrades will be few/far between and knowing that there is a pretty good chance I will end up in E+, along with the new watered down Rapid Rewards, means that I will be more likely to choose UA over WN for my local hops along the west coast. Thanks Scott and everyone else at Smith Street/Wacker Drive!
Feb 17, 2011, 5:10 pm
#133
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I agree with you. When I first heard the announcement, I rejoiced because it seemed like things would be "like they've always been." But after reading the post from UA Insider, it seems like there at least is a possibility for some changes down the line as far as access goes. This makes me a bit worried.
Feb 17, 2011, 5:11 pm
#134
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 2,842
As a UA 1K, missing an upgrade is very rare, and UA has way less seats in First than CO so I don't see how it's an issue. Do they really need that many First seats? For example on the 737-800, 132 coach seats and 20 first class is a bit much. This about the same size as an A320 for UA and they have 12 First seats on this plane. Maybe if both carriers had 16 FC seats on an aircraft this size, that would be best.
The thing is the A319/A319/738/739's will likely do a lot of the non SFO/LAX transcons from IAD/EWR and non EWR/IAD transcons from LAX/SFO. The fact all of these aircraft may only have 12 F seats for a transcon flight is kind of sad.
Just to note:
AA 738/MD80 16 F seats
DL 738/MD80/DC9/A320 16 F seats
Feb 17, 2011, 5:12 pm
#135
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YAY! finally a change I like