Economy Plus is here to stay
Feb 17, 2011, 6:05 pm
#151
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near SEA
Programs: UA MM, AS MVPG75K, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 7,969
But that was under the old UA. UA charged high prices for F so few bought, thus the F seats were mostly upgrades for GS/1K. BUT - CO who is in charge now - has lower priced F seats and instant upgrades on B and M (yes B is going up). And CO has a buy up program that calculates individual segments over cheapest upgradeable fare - even though it was not available during time of ticket purchase.
So get prepared. Unless you are GS - 1K'ers WILL see their upgrade rates drop. The days of 1K'ers who earn it buy flying only the cheapest fares - and who do long routings to earn the 100K miles AND get upgraded nearly 100% of the time are over.
Most here favor the E+ expansion to CO metal, but get prepared - that is where most of you will be sitting - unless you achieve GS or buy instant upgrade fares.
Milerunners who fly to earn top status - better get used to flying in E+. F will be a thing of the past unless you pay up.
So get prepared. Unless you are GS - 1K'ers WILL see their upgrade rates drop. The days of 1K'ers who earn it buy flying only the cheapest fares - and who do long routings to earn the 100K miles AND get upgraded nearly 100% of the time are over.
Most here favor the E+ expansion to CO metal, but get prepared - that is where most of you will be sitting - unless you achieve GS or buy instant upgrade fares.
Milerunners who fly to earn top status - better get used to flying in E+. F will be a thing of the past unless you pay up.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:07 pm
#152
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: EAU
Programs: UA 1K, CO Plat, NW Plat, Marriott Premiere Plat, SPG Plat, Priority Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,712
Phooey. There is nothing wrong with the airline SELLING seats on the plane. If you want one, buy one.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:07 pm
#153
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
Feb 17, 2011, 6:11 pm
#154
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Francisco
Programs: All-Around Kettle
Posts: 3,291
One reasonable argument that is set forth, however, is that the free domestic upgrades win the loyalty of business travelers who otherwise spend thousands of their employers' dollars to fly international premium cabins, etc.
Thus, the right answer for the airline depends on whether they can make more selling upgrades for "10s of dollars" or giving the upgrades for free to win the loyalty of premium long-haul travelers they would not get without the free upgrades.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:15 pm
#156
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Im just
that I wont have to go shopping around for a new Home, now if CO will get rid of UAs caterer especially for KSML I can add a few more s
Feb 17, 2011, 6:20 pm
#157
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,658
But the transition team is now tasked with coming up with the strategy on how are they going to pay for it. I am sure they are analyzing both -4F or -6Y seats as options. As well as how F should be priced to make up any lost revenue. If you go from 16F to 12F on a 738 (like A320) you need to get a 33% increase in revenue from those remaining 12F seats to make up the difference, assuming E+ is the "you'll like what you see" freebie for FF'ers.
You can't raise coach fares - since those do compete with LCCs - so the options are: (1) earn more revenue from F or (2) earn more revenue from E+ from those that do not get it automatically - ie fee for E+ or ELR.
In our DO meetings with Jeff and Jim in the past - it is clear that the positions, if we give you something or we add something, we need some way to pay for it. It could be more higher fare passengers who want those new features or whatever.
I wish UA/CO could sell every F seat at top dollar prices, and I never get an upgrade - but realistically they can never sell all F seats - unless they drop them down. They can offer them for ToD's at check in time based on your fare and that is what CO does now.
I have been offered the last F seat for $200 over my $50 segment ticket value and could have bumped those ahead of me on the upgrade list. So new rules ahead.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:27 pm
#158
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
f kettles who pony up for E+...
Feb 17, 2011, 6:29 pm
#159
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,658
Only from a standpoint that CO legacy management was sold on the idea of keeping E+ by legacy UA people. But remember, CO management is running the show here, and CO legacy management is now running revenue management. UA people - get ready for change.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:36 pm
#160
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,658
Maybe:
735 - 8 F
73G, 319 - 12 F (an increase for the 319)
738, 320 - 16 F (an increase for the 320, a decrease for the 738 mid-lav)
739 - 20 F
752 domestic, 753 - 24 F
Plan is then - get more revenue in F - focus on getting instant upgrade fares and charge for E+ (non elites). Differentiate from the LCCs. Otherwise you can't compete on price. UA has a large international structure - so leverage that. UA needs F seats for connecting F/J passengers.
Of course, the other option is -4F, paid ups only.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:37 pm
#161
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
n't know yet.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:52 pm
#163
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lahaina, HI & Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,403
To further what I said two posts up, the CO guys can now see the historic and current UA revenue numbers for E+. Aside from any competitive pressure DL put on them in the last week (announcing an E+ like offering for international travel), they clearly see that it can pay for itself. Maybe that's just from TOD upsells. Maybe it's from something else. We dn't know yet.
n't know yet.
Feb 17, 2011, 7:00 pm
#164
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: EWR, BDL
Posts: 4,471
My gut tells me CO will keep F as is (maybe reduce the mid-cabin lav config) and equalize the fleet.
Maybe:
735 - 8 F
73G, 319 - 12 F (an increase for the 319)
738, 320 - 16 F (an increase for the 320, a decrease for the 738 mid-lav)
739 - 20 F
752 domestic, 753 - 24 F
Plan is then - get more revenue in F - focus on getting instant upgrade fares and charge for E+ (non elites). Differentiate from the LCCs. Otherwise you can't compete on price. UA has a large international structure - so leverage that. UA needs F seats for connecting F/J passengers.
Of course, the other option is -4F, paid ups only.
Maybe:
735 - 8 F
73G, 319 - 12 F (an increase for the 319)
738, 320 - 16 F (an increase for the 320, a decrease for the 738 mid-lav)
739 - 20 F
752 domestic, 753 - 24 F
Plan is then - get more revenue in F - focus on getting instant upgrade fares and charge for E+ (non elites). Differentiate from the LCCs. Otherwise you can't compete on price. UA has a large international structure - so leverage that. UA needs F seats for connecting F/J passengers.
Of course, the other option is -4F, paid ups only.
Feb 17, 2011, 7:01 pm
#165
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,795