Moscow Travel Thread...Possible DO??
Apr 11, 2009, 3:58 pm
#121
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: UA/1K
Posts: 59
I asked the agent about it, as well as someone who claimed to be the top level at BOS for United, and what I got was that I'd have to write a letter to ask for some kind of compensation (if any). I haven't contacted United proper yet, figured I'd throw it in here first to see. They also said that they put some notes in my reservation but of course I've no idea what's in there.
Last edited by neuf; Apr 11, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Apr 11, 2009, 4:05 pm
#122
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Posts: 15,164
Did you have any of the information printed out to show them (from this thread - post 43) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...-anyway-3.html
Apr 11, 2009, 4:09 pm
#123
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: UA/1K
Posts: 59
Did you have any of the information printed out to show them (from this thread - post 43) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...-anyway-3.html
) They did find the TWOV rules in the United system, but like I said wouldn't issue me the BP on the basis that I wouldn't be able to check in in DME.I guess that might make me SOL...
Apr 11, 2009, 9:06 pm
#124
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No, I didn't have it printed out. I'm not sure that would have helped, but maybe ... (after all if I'm going to print it out, might as well be fabricated, why would they trust me?
) They did find the TWOV rules in the United system, but like I said wouldn't issue me the BP on the basis that I wouldn't be able to check in in DME.
I guess that might make me SOL...
Clearly you do not need to "check-in" at DME if you already have your BP ex USA for DME-IAD.
Of course it would help having print outs .. they ARE the rules that UNITED and the RUSSIANS use - I've posted them here many times, and suggested EVERYONE doing same day turn prints out both the English AND the Russian versions and take them along. Common sense.
It is the same reason 100s of FT'ers have the United RULES for RCC admittance printed out, and carried with them - we know more about the actual rules, than most gate Matrons, who delight in inventing their own personal versions.
Actually, I was kind of hoping I'd have an issue getting boarded ex the USA.
I had planned to politely say "thank you - what a shame - Oh Well - can you please note your decision in the comments field of my PNR please" if that occurred, and walk away with a wide smile when it was done.
THEN I'd later write a note to the 1K line, insisting they credit the miles, and the double EQM, and the 100% bonus, and the 3000 Russia bonus, just as if I'd taken the flight.
Their agent would be WRONG to have refused boarding, and WHQ would see that, but rather than argue at the podium, (and get nowhere) I'd have been delighted to have an unexpected day of sightseeing in IAD.
i.e. as they do all day long for involuntary re-routes on non UA metal. You get all miles and bonuses as IF you took those flights. If UA cancels a direct flight to Paris or AMS and puts you on Air France or AA or BA etc via a ticket endorsement, you get ALL the UA miles as if you flew it, AND all the miles from the other carrier too, if you are savvy enough to claim them.
UA would under these circumstances BOS-DME certainly add all the miles etc with no issue if asked the right way.
I'd not have pushed for a refund. All it means was 24 hours less of sitting in planes in coach. UA may also OFFER one, or a voucher for the pro-rata, but I for one would not push my luck.
Anyway why you did not simply fly the BOS-IAD section of your ticket, and talk to the fluent RUSSIAN UA speaking/reading agent on the DME gate there - paid to be there for exactly this kind of issue, sure beats me.
I can imagine at Fargo ND, or St George UT etc, the agents are not up to speed on the Russia flight and Visa details, but the agents at IAD podium are as they check these flights in each day. @:-)
There is in fact a DOUBLE CHECK of your Visa at BP reader as well as at podium, so these girls know EXACTLY what the rules are.
I took DAYS researching this, even posting on Russian Travel boards and it was near impossible to get straight answers, so the only way to be sure was to do it first hand and report back.
The thing to print out AGAIN for same day turn around Flyer Talkers is this -
===========
OK .. AFAIK here are the OFFICIAL rules!
Hope this assists others in future as these appear quite clear.
http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...t_information/
This service is what all the airlines - including United - use FROM the USA to determine if you will be admitted or not to Russia with no Visa, and likewise your return to USA.
The system is called TIMATIC and the major airlines all access this exact data I am advised.
=================
/ 29MAR09 / 1906 UTC
National Australia (AU) (Same wording below applies to USA citizens)
Transit Russian Federation (RU)/Destination U.S.A. (US)
ALSO CHECK DESTINATION INFORMATION BELOW
Russian Federation (RU)
TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
Visa required, except for Those continuing their journey
within 24 hours without leaving the airside (international)
transit area:
- if continuing by a domestic flight (also including Belarus)
or if the airport of arrival is different from the airport
of departure within the same Russian city (e.g. arriving at
Sheremetyevo-2 and departing from Sheremetyevo-1 airport in
Moscow) then a transit visa is required, as one is entering
territory of the Russian Federation.
Additional Information:
- Passengers are required to hold return/onward tickets and
documents required for the next destination.
- Valid visas in expired passports or other expired travel
documents are not accepted.
Warning:
- Non-compliance with entry or transit regulations may result
in fines for carrier For details, click here
FOR U.S.A. (US)
Passport required.
- Nationals of Australia may enter with passports valid for
period of intended stay.
Passport Exemptions:
- Holders of a valid on arrival Form I-512 ( Authorization for
Parole of an Alien into the United States").
- Holders of a Temporary or Emergency passports.
Visa required, except for Those entitled to travel under the
U.S. Visa Waiver Permanent Program (V.W.P.P.), travelling on
holiday, business or for transit purposes only, and stay does
not exceed 90 days (see V.W.P.P conditions below):
====================
38. Транзитная виза выдается иностранному гражданину в целях транзитного проезда через территорию Российской Федерации либо в целях эвакуации иностранного гражданина, прибывшего в Российскую Федерацию в порядке, не требующем получения визы (пассажирам круизных судов, гражданам стран, с которыми Российская Федерация имеет соглашения о безвизовом въезде, и пассажирам, совершающим безвизовый транзит до 24 часов). Транзитная виза выдается на срок до 10 дней.
http://www.center-migracia.ru/law/resolution_335.htm
не требующем получения визы (пассажирам круизных судов, гражданам стран, с которыми Российская Федерация имеет соглашения о безвизовом въезде, и пассажирам, совершающим безвизовый транзит до 24 часов = no visa needed for ....., passengers, who make the visa-free transit up to 24 hours)
About 24-hours visa-free transit:
в случае следования иностранца транзитом через территорию России на самолете международной авиалинии с пересадкой в аэропорту на ее территории (п. 2 ст. 31 Закона о въезде и выезде). В таком случае виза не потребуется, только если иностранный пассажир в соответствии с расписанием полетов покинет российский аэропорт в течение 24 часов с момента прибытия. При этом он вправе находиться только на территории аэропорта (в пунктах пересадки аэропорта, где обеспечивается режим, исключающий свободный выход транзитных пассажиров за его пределы). Вместо визы у иностранца должны быть надлежащим образом оформленные документы на право въезда в государство назначения, а также авиабилет с подтвержденной датой вылета из российского аэропорта, в котором осуществляется пересадка в течение 24 часов с момента прибытия в него;
http://osppruch.futown.ru/1-7.html
Works for passenger who is in compliance with the following facts:
- Connection flight - Passenger should leave transit zone in 24 hours
- Passenger should have the correct paperwork for the inbound flight and ticket
Last edited by ozstamps; Apr 11, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Apr 11, 2009, 9:30 pm
#125
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: UA/1K
Posts: 59
Durhhh ... all they needed to do was issue the BP for DME-IAD in BOS or IAD as I have urged all folks here to ensure they have secured and in their hand BEFORE they step onto the UA 767 in IAD, and there is then no issue whatever in DME if you have no checked bags.
Clearly you do not need to "check-in" at DME if you already have your BP ex USA for DME-IAD.
Of course it would help having print outs .. they ARE the rules that UNITED and the RUSSIANS use - I've posted them here many times, and suggested EVERYONE doing same day turn prints out both the English AND the Russian versions and take them along. Common sense.
It is the same reason 100s of FT'ers have the United RULES for RCC admittance printed out, and carried with them - we know more about the actual rules, than most gate Matrons, who delight in inventing their own personal versions.
Actually, I was kind of hoping I'd have an issue getting boarded ex the USA.
I had planned to politely say "thank you - what a shame - Oh Well - can you please note your decision in the comments field of my PNR please" if that occurred, and walk away with a wide smile when it was done.
THEN I'd later write a note to the 1K line, insisting they credit the miles, and the double EQM, and the 100% bonus, and the 3000 Russia bonus, just as if I'd taken the flight.
Their agent would be WRONG to have refused boarding, and WHQ would see that, but rather than argue at the podium, (and get nowhere) I'd have been delighted to have an unexpected day of sightseeing in IAD.
i.e. as they do all day long for involuntary re-routes on non UA metal. You get all miles and bonuses as IF you took those flights. If UA cancels a direct flight to Paris or AMS and puts you on Air France or AA or BA etc via a ticket endorsement, you get ALL the UA miles as if you flew it, AND all the miles from the other carrier too, if you are savvy enough to claim them.
UA would under these circumstances BOS-DME certainly add all the miles etc with no issue if asked the right way.
I'd not have pushed for a refund. All it means was 24 hours less of sitting in planes in coach. UA may also OFFER one, or a voucher for the pro-rata, but I for one would not push my luck.
Anyway why you did not simply fly the BOS-IAD section of your ticket, and talk to the fluent RUSSIAN UA speaking/reading agent on the DME gate there - paid to be there for exactly this kind of issue, sure beats me.
I can imagine at Fargo ND, or St George UT etc, the agents are not up to speed on the Russia flight and Visa details, but the agents at IAD podium are as they check these flights in each day. @:-)
There is in fact a DOUBLE CHECK of your Visa at BP reader as well as at podium, so these girls know EXACTLY what the rules are.
I took DAYS researching this, even posting on Russian Travel boards and it was near impossible to get straight answers, so the only way to be sure was to do it first hand and report back.
Clearly you do not need to "check-in" at DME if you already have your BP ex USA for DME-IAD.
Of course it would help having print outs .. they ARE the rules that UNITED and the RUSSIANS use - I've posted them here many times, and suggested EVERYONE doing same day turn prints out both the English AND the Russian versions and take them along. Common sense.
It is the same reason 100s of FT'ers have the United RULES for RCC admittance printed out, and carried with them - we know more about the actual rules, than most gate Matrons, who delight in inventing their own personal versions.
Actually, I was kind of hoping I'd have an issue getting boarded ex the USA.
I had planned to politely say "thank you - what a shame - Oh Well - can you please note your decision in the comments field of my PNR please" if that occurred, and walk away with a wide smile when it was done.
THEN I'd later write a note to the 1K line, insisting they credit the miles, and the double EQM, and the 100% bonus, and the 3000 Russia bonus, just as if I'd taken the flight.
Their agent would be WRONG to have refused boarding, and WHQ would see that, but rather than argue at the podium, (and get nowhere) I'd have been delighted to have an unexpected day of sightseeing in IAD.
i.e. as they do all day long for involuntary re-routes on non UA metal. You get all miles and bonuses as IF you took those flights. If UA cancels a direct flight to Paris or AMS and puts you on Air France or AA or BA etc via a ticket endorsement, you get ALL the UA miles as if you flew it, AND all the miles from the other carrier too, if you are savvy enough to claim them.
UA would under these circumstances BOS-DME certainly add all the miles etc with no issue if asked the right way.
I'd not have pushed for a refund. All it means was 24 hours less of sitting in planes in coach. UA may also OFFER one, or a voucher for the pro-rata, but I for one would not push my luck.
Anyway why you did not simply fly the BOS-IAD section of your ticket, and talk to the fluent RUSSIAN UA speaking/reading agent on the DME gate there - paid to be there for exactly this kind of issue, sure beats me.
I can imagine at Fargo ND, or St George UT etc, the agents are not up to speed on the Russia flight and Visa details, but the agents at IAD podium are as they check these flights in each day. @:-)
There is in fact a DOUBLE CHECK of your Visa at BP reader as well as at podium, so these girls know EXACTLY what the rules are.
I took DAYS researching this, even posting on Russian Travel boards and it was near impossible to get straight answers, so the only way to be sure was to do it first hand and report back.
And as I tried to tell the head guy, if he issued both BPs then there wouldn't be any issue. His response was literally "they do things differently over there" (speaking about DME)I've got no particularly special status (2P) although this with the promos would have sent me to 1P, ... who should I get in touch with?
Apr 11, 2009, 9:40 pm
#126
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They wouldn't even let me go to IAD, I didn't feel like buying another ticket to IAD just to argue with another agent who'd say since I missed my first flight they wouldn't let me on the second leg
I've got no particularly special status (2P) although this with the promos would have sent me to 1P, ... who should I get in touch with?
How on earth was the BOS-IAD affected by this? The IAD-DME-IAD was the only issue at hand.
Status is no issue here -- simply write to UA Customer Relations at Elk Grove - keep it short and to the point, and DO mention/printout/attach the TIMATIC rule re TWOV (Transit Without Visa) that you pointed out to agent.
Request all miles, bonus miles and double EQM - i.e. as IF you flew all flights.
Do not mention a refund if you are wise .. the miles are all you really are after here I'd guess, but you MAY get one as a courtesy or a decent size voucher, which of course is pure icing on the cake.
Apr 12, 2009, 12:11 am
#127
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 486
chanp, you mentioned that the metro stations were busy when you went to the airport. I saw this on Monday, getting to the circle line - the line to the escalator at Komsomolskaya was so long. There were 14 people across on each step going up and everyone went up a step, waited, then another step ...
But today, Saturday, it was not busy at all. I left the Hilton at 8:10 AM for the 12:35PM UA flight. I was sitting on the airport express train at 8:45 which departed at 9AM.
Made the connection at IAD to UA 967 with no problem. Sure helped being in C, but there were no other flights that we had to share the lines with.
The video was not working back in coach on today's (April 11) DME-IAD flight.
But today, Saturday, it was not busy at all. I left the Hilton at 8:10 AM for the 12:35PM UA flight. I was sitting on the airport express train at 8:45 which departed at 9AM.
Made the connection at IAD to UA 967 with no problem. Sure helped being in C, but there were no other flights that we had to share the lines with.
The video was not working back in coach on today's (April 11) DME-IAD flight.
Apr 12, 2009, 12:16 am
#128
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 486
One other thing: I was already upgraded to C with a SWU and checked in online. Went to the checkin line to get waitlisted on a later IAD-LAX flight. They asked if I wanted to upgrade.
They offered an upgrade from C to F for ~$683. The upgrade from Y to C would have been ~$809.
They offered an upgrade from C to F for ~$683. The upgrade from Y to C would have been ~$809.
Apr 12, 2009, 9:11 am
#129
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: All over
Programs: AA-LTP, HH-DIA, Marriott-LT+AMB, Hyatt-Globalist, Hertz-PC, UA-GS, BA-Gold
Posts: 6,831
chanp, you mentioned that the metro stations were busy when you went to the airport. I saw this on Monday, getting to the circle line - the line to the escalator at Komsomolskaya was so long. There were 14 people across on each step going up and everyone went up a step, waited, then another step ...
But today, Saturday, it was not busy at all. I left the Hilton at 8:10 AM for the 12:35PM UA flight. I was sitting on the airport express train at 8:45 which departed at 9AM.
Made the connection at IAD to UA 967 with no problem. Sure helped being in C, but there were no other flights that we had to share the lines with.
The video was not working back in coach on today's (April 11) DME-IAD flight.
But today, Saturday, it was not busy at all. I left the Hilton at 8:10 AM for the 12:35PM UA flight. I was sitting on the airport express train at 8:45 which departed at 9AM.
Made the connection at IAD to UA 967 with no problem. Sure helped being in C, but there were no other flights that we had to share the lines with.
The video was not working back in coach on today's (April 11) DME-IAD flight.
How was SPB? Pics? Glad you made it home.
Apr 12, 2009, 11:09 am
#130
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,933
A poster in another thread called UA and was advised against doing a RT without a visa
The rules leave some room for YMMV and unfortunately it didn't work out well for neuf.
I personally would not define an immediate turn back as transit and neither did a UA agent in BOS. This is not as clear as RCC admission rules and such. Also I suspect UA has absolutely no desire to explain things to the russians and mileage running is way too unusual to explain.
I mentioned that before and I am gonna mention it now: this is a YMMV. If anyone is willing to take a chance, put money at risk and possibly fight with UA over this later on - go ahead but do understand the risks involved.
Really appreciated your post on Russia. I'm heading there this saturday, doing the same turnaround you did ie 2 hours in the airport then back on the plane. I'm also flying united. It seemed like you had no issue boarding.
However I've called united on the phone twice and each time they've told me after much checking that they won't let me on the plane without an entry visa. It seemed from your post that the gate agent was able to pull up the correct rules with no hassle? Did you find that information on the united website somewhere? What did you bring with you in terms of documentation? Any suggestions much appreciated, I want to make sure I have no issue boarding the plane.
Thanks
D
However I've called united on the phone twice and each time they've told me after much checking that they won't let me on the plane without an entry visa. It seemed from your post that the gate agent was able to pull up the correct rules with no hassle? Did you find that information on the united website somewhere? What did you bring with you in terms of documentation? Any suggestions much appreciated, I want to make sure I have no issue boarding the plane.
Thanks
D
I personally would not define an immediate turn back as transit and neither did a UA agent in BOS. This is not as clear as RCC admission rules and such. Also I suspect UA has absolutely no desire to explain things to the russians and mileage running is way too unusual to explain.
I mentioned that before and I am gonna mention it now: this is a YMMV. If anyone is willing to take a chance, put money at risk and possibly fight with UA over this later on - go ahead but do understand the risks involved.
Apr 13, 2009, 6:38 pm
#133
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: (SJC)
Posts: 2,200
Visa Arrived: http://tr.im/iLdz looking forward to the trip! See everyone (22-29) there!
Apr 13, 2009, 9:43 pm
#134
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SAN & ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 252
добрый вечер,
By my calculations -
TelevisionTdTina, JenGal, langleyoaker, a330300, Tchaka, AMRivlin, SoxIn7, big V,as219, UNHBuzzard, myself, and +13 guests spread amongst us will all be in Moscow on 4/24 or 4/25.
Can we say mini-DO!!!
Possibilities:
Moscow tour to get the lay of the land (tour company undecided)
Tasty Russian lunch or dinner
Red Square visit
Theatre or ballet
Beer or vodka tasting
chanp and apoivre recommend Glavpivtorg as a great restaurant (see post #94 & 95).
Want to join? Thoughts or suggestions?
By my calculations -
TelevisionTdTina, JenGal, langleyoaker, a330300, Tchaka, AMRivlin, SoxIn7, big V,as219, UNHBuzzard, myself, and +13 guests spread amongst us will all be in Moscow on 4/24 or 4/25.
Can we say mini-DO!!!
Possibilities:
Moscow tour to get the lay of the land (tour company undecided)
Tasty Russian lunch or dinner
Red Square visit
Theatre or ballet
Beer or vodka tasting
chanp and apoivre recommend Glavpivtorg as a great restaurant (see post #94 & 95).
Want to join? Thoughts or suggestions?
Apr 13, 2009, 10:02 pm
#135
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,933
Can we say mini-DO!!!
Possibilities:
Moscow tour to get the lay of the land (tour company undecided)
Tasty Russian lunch or dinner
Red Square visit
Theatre or ballet
Beer or vodka tasting
chanp and apoivre recommend Glavpivtorg as a great restaurant (see post #94 & 95).
Want to join? Thoughts or suggestions?
Possibilities:
Moscow tour to get the lay of the land (tour company undecided)
Tasty Russian lunch or dinner
Red Square visit
Theatre or ballet
Beer or vodka tasting
chanp and apoivre recommend Glavpivtorg as a great restaurant (see post #94 & 95).
Want to join? Thoughts or suggestions?
While I won't be there that weekend I support glavpivtorg idea.
The place is about 10 min from Red square, 5 min from bolshoi and hyatt and easy to reach in general. apoivre and I walked by it last weekend (but didn't go in) and it looked rather curious.
We'll probabaly have a smaller get together there the following weekend.