MOBILE Flight Deck Secondary Barrier Galley Cart System
Feb 11, 2019, 7:30 pm
#211
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Look at this JetBlue Airbus cockpit door photo. Most cockpit doors open away from the cabin: ALL A319, A320, A321, B767, and B777s.
So how can a pilot see an attack coming when the door is swinging into him/her? How does the standing pilot stop such (20 MPH) force directed at him--thus knocking him back?
Finally, JetBlue and Southwest do not have drink-carts to "delay" a breach. So what's you answer to that???
Oh wait, that's right, "ninja flight attendants" will save you...
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...pits/80302964/
So how can a pilot see an attack coming when the door is swinging into him/her? How does the standing pilot stop such (20 MPH) force directed at him--thus knocking him back?
Finally, JetBlue and Southwest do not have drink-carts to "delay" a breach. So what's you answer to that???
Oh wait, that's right, "ninja flight attendants" will save you...
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...pits/80302964/
Feb 11, 2019, 8:33 pm
#212
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Look at this JetBlue Airbus cockpit door photo. Most cockpit doors open away from the cabin: ALL A319, A320, A321, B767, and B777s.
So how can a pilot see an attack coming when the door is swinging into him/her? How does the standing pilot stop such (20 MPH) force directed at him--thus knocking him back?
Finally, JetBlue and Southwest do not have drink-carts to "delay" a breach. So what's you answer to that???
Oh wait, that's right, "ninja flight attendants" will save you...
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...pits/80302964/
So how can a pilot see an attack coming when the door is swinging into him/her? How does the standing pilot stop such (20 MPH) force directed at him--thus knocking him back?
Finally, JetBlue and Southwest do not have drink-carts to "delay" a breach. So what's you answer to that???
Oh wait, that's right, "ninja flight attendants" will save you...
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...pits/80302964/
How many cases of a "muscle terrorist" jumping a beverage cart, knocking down the "ninja flight attendant", over coming the pilot stepping off the flight deck {before the pilot slams the door closed}, then defeating the pilot at the controls can you list?
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Feb 12, 2019 at 9:19 am Reason: added element
Feb 12, 2019, 5:55 am
#213
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...
If you do it before, is that not a problem because you realized the "drink cart pony show" is taking place? Is that "show" not a problem--for the fact that it telegraphs that the door is about to get unlocked in violation of Section 104 of the 2001 ATSAC law?
If you do it before, is that not a problem because you realized the "drink cart pony show" is taking place? Is that "show" not a problem--for the fact that it telegraphs that the door is about to get unlocked in violation of Section 104 of the 2001 ATSAC law?
n the contrary, the crew is always rather serious about it.
Have you ever been on a flight with a short crew because one was a no-show?
Feb 12, 2019, 8:55 am
#214
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I have a question. When FAM's are on-board an aircraft one is typically positioned in first, aisle row 2. If a terrorist can react to an opening cockpit door so quickly then considering reaction time what the heck is the purpose of the FAM sitting in first? Wouldn't the "muscle terrorist" already be in the cockpit with the door closed before the FAM could react? I think it's the "Ninja Flight Attendant" with the beverage cart that is going to be the significant player in preventing a breech.
Feb 12, 2019, 2:59 pm
#215
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Page 158 of the 9/11 Commission Report:
"While in Karachi, ['9/11 principal architect' Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM)] also discussed how to case flights in Southeast Asia. KSM told them to watch the [cockpit] doors at takeoff and landing, to observe whether the captain went to the lavatory during the flight, and to note whether the flight attendants brought food into the cockpit."
Feb 12, 2019, 3:05 pm
#216
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Yes - and as everyone here knows the SOP for a hijacking at that time was to cooperate with hijackers so as to safely get the aircraft on the ground. That is no longer the case. But you knew that too.
Feb 12, 2019, 3:05 pm
#217
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"The cart pony show" alerts the hijackers to get ready in order to vault over it and breach the cockpit. The pilots need to stop cabin notifications--to begin" the cart pony show"--and POP open and quickly close the door, thus making it impossible to react fast enough. I'd rather rely on a pilot establishing his make-shift barrier than relying on flight attendants who can be in their 80s.
Feb 12, 2019, 3:11 pm
#218
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“Flight attendants in their 80s” is yet another red herring. Some people in their 80s can have as much physical ability as some people in their 20s. If they’re turning up every day and doing the job it tends to suggest they meet the physical fitness requirements. Why not just leave it at “flight attendants” rather than picking on this one hostie?!
Feb 12, 2019, 3:12 pm
#219
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"The cart pony show" alerts the hijackers to get ready in order to vault over it and breach the cockpit. The pilots need to stop cabin notifications--to begin" the cart pony show"--and POP open and quickly close the door, thus making it impossible to react fast enough. I'd rather rely on a pilot establishing his make-shift barrier than relying on flight attendants who can be in their 80s.
sense. First you want people to buy your mobile cart system to establish a barrier. Then you say whatever happens should be done super fast so nobody knows it's about to happen. Finally, the pilot is supposed to "[establish] his make-shift barrier" so he can exit the cockpit -- but this can't happen if the door is securely closed and he's behind the door.
Feb 12, 2019, 3:15 pm
#220
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Page 5 of the 9/11 Commission Report:
"American 11 flight Attendant Betty] Ong: 'the [hijackers] jammed their way in."
Sorry - this makes absolutely zer sense. First you want people to buy your mobile cart system to establish a barrier. Then you say whatever happens should be done super fast so nobody knows it's about to happen. Finally, the pilot is supposed to "[establish] his make-shift barrier" so he can exit the cockpit -- but this can't happen if the door is securely closed and he's behind the door.
sense. First you want people to buy your mobile cart system to establish a barrier. Then you say whatever happens should be done super fast so nobody knows it's about to happen. Finally, the pilot is supposed to "[establish] his make-shift barrier" so he can exit the cockpit -- but this can't happen if the door is securely closed and he's behind the door.I have a question. When FAM's are on-board an aircraft one is typically positioned in first, aisle row 2. If a terrorist can react to an opening cockpit door so quickly then considering reaction time what the heck is the purpose of the FAM sitting in first? Wouldn't the "muscle terrorist" already be in the cockpit with the door closed before the FAM could react? I think it's the "Ninja Flight Attendant" with the beverage cart that is going to be the significant player in preventing a breech.
"Federal air marshals are being moved to the back of the plane"
Last edited by TWA884; Feb 13, 2019 at 12:10 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member; please use the multi-quote function. Thank you.
Feb 12, 2019, 5:08 pm
#221
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I could post some clips from Passenger 57, Die Hard 2, or Executive Decision, but that wouldn't be evidence, either.
Movies aren't real, not even when they're dramatizations of actual events. There is a lot that's not known about what happened on United 93 and the other 9/11 flights; what is known is only what was on the CVR and the little bit heard by distraught family contacted by passengers on air phones. Which means that the movie likely contained an awful lot of guessing and wishful thinking, and presenting it as evidence is not much better than presenting Die Hard With a Vengeance in support of the War on Water.
Movies aren't real, not even when they're dramatizations of actual events. There is a lot that's not known about what happened on United 93 and the other 9/11 flights; what is known is only what was on the CVR and the little bit heard by distraught family contacted by passengers on air phones. Which means that the movie likely contained an awful lot of guessing and wishful thinking, and presenting it as evidence is not much better than presenting Die Hard With a Vengeance in support of the War on Water.
Feb 12, 2019, 5:28 pm
#222
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Feb 13, 2019, 9:10 am
#223
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Page 158 of the 9/11 Commission Report:
"While in Karachi, ['9/11 principal architect' Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM)] also discussed how to case flights in Southeast Asia. KSM told them to watch the [cockpit] doors at takeoff and landing, to observe whether the captain went to the lavatory during the flight, and to note whether the flight attendants brought food into the cockpit."
"American 11 flight Attendant Betty] Ong: 'the [hijackers] jammed their way in."
Feb 13, 2019, 2:57 pm
#224
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UT WITHOUT CHECKING THEIR SURROUNDINGS does not make sense? Part of the new procedures include use of the cart that only you seem to think is easy to jump over.
Feb 13, 2019, 3:23 pm
#225
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I guess you have not read the June 26, 2017 redacted and unpublished U.S. Department of Transportation / Office of Inspector General Audit Report concluding that the method is "ineffective"--even Federal Air Marshals with Top Secret clearances are allowed to see under the redactions:
http://bit.ly/dotoig20170626