May 15, 2014, 8:16 am
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
This thread is now archived. Please follow the topic here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-rewards/1986148-chase-closed-my-credit-card-account-s-tales-speculation-2019-thread.html
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
- Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last name?
- Did you sell UR points to someone?
- Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months?
- Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards?
- Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards?
- Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks?
- Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit in the past 2 months? ("Many" may be hard to define.)
- If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?
- Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months?
- Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit?
- Approximately what percentage of spending was on gift cards this year?
- How much of your bill do you typically pay using WM or KMart bill payment if any?
- Do you have a Chase mortgage or other account that might be profitable to Chase?
- Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score?
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
Chase closed my credit card account(s) [Archived 2013-mid 2019]
Mar 17, 2017, 9:31 pm
#1321
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: HHonors Lifetime Diamond, UA Million Miler Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,142
So I just have a hard time believing that Chase is looking to close accounts for no reason. What is the upside of this behavior for them? There has to be something that has either been done wrong or appears to be and I find it hard to believe that anyone who has this happen to them doesn't know exactly what is if they look in the mirror long enough.
Mar 18, 2017, 2:34 pm
#1322
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: HHonors Lifetime Diamond, UA Million Miler Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,142
What does Chase consider "manufactured spend" or what are posters referring to when they use that term?
Also, are you saying paying your balance off multiple times a month is bad? I pay mine weekly at a minimum and never have had an issue...knock on wood...but it is paid online from my Chase Checking account
Why does Chase offer these bonuses on spends and then penalize the user for using the card on that spend. Seems so odd, what am I missing.
Also, are you saying paying your balance off multiple times a month is bad? I pay mine weekly at a minimum and never have had an issue...knock on wood...but it is paid online from my Chase Checking account
Why does Chase offer these bonuses on spends and then penalize the user for using the card on that spend. Seems so odd, what am I missing.
Last edited by mia; Mar 18, 2017 at 4:42 pm
Mar 18, 2017, 2:58 pm
#1323
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,047
I think what you are missing here is that each bank has a different risk tolerance, and each bank has a different list of egregious behaviors that flag customers.
Chase is pretty conservative, by all estimates. They err on the side of dumping a customer so that they remaining solidly on the good side of regulators. If a customer's actions could be interpreted as money laundering in any way, they see no need to continue the relationship. Many other banks are more lenient.
Further, they are solidly against credit card churning and gaming and they are happy to close down accounts that they suspect are unprofitable to them, if only for that reason. Moving UR points between accounts seems to be a relatively successful way to get extra scrutiny on your account. If they decide that what they find upon investigation merits a closure, they don't mind losing a customer.
In short, if you value your Chase relationship (and they do offer some of the best cards and bonuses), play very gently with them.
Chase is pretty conservative, by all estimates. They err on the side of dumping a customer so that they remaining solidly on the good side of regulators. If a customer's actions could be interpreted as money laundering in any way, they see no need to continue the relationship. Many other banks are more lenient.
Further, they are solidly against credit card churning and gaming and they are happy to close down accounts that they suspect are unprofitable to them, if only for that reason. Moving UR points between accounts seems to be a relatively successful way to get extra scrutiny on your account. If they decide that what they find upon investigation merits a closure, they don't mind losing a customer.
In short, if you value your Chase relationship (and they do offer some of the best cards and bonuses), play very gently with them.
Mar 18, 2017, 3:13 pm
#1324
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: HHonors Lifetime Diamond, UA Million Miler Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,142
I think what you are missing here is that each bank has a different risk tolerance, and each bank has a different list of egregious behaviors that flag customers.
Chase is pretty conservative, by all estimates. They err on the side of dumping a customer so that they remaining solidly on the good side of regulators. If a customer's actions could be interpreted as money laundering in any way, they see no need to continue the relationship. Many other banks are more lenient.
Further, they are solidly against credit card churning and gaming and they are happy to close down accounts that they suspect are unprofitable to them, if only for that reason. Moving UR points between accounts seems to be a relatively successful way to get extra scrutiny on your account. If they decide that what they find upon investigation merits a closure, they don't mind losing a customer.
In short, if you value your Chase relationship (and they do offer some of the best cards and bonuses), play very gently with them.
Chase is pretty conservative, by all estimates. They err on the side of dumping a customer so that they remaining solidly on the good side of regulators. If a customer's actions could be interpreted as money laundering in any way, they see no need to continue the relationship. Many other banks are more lenient.
Further, they are solidly against credit card churning and gaming and they are happy to close down accounts that they suspect are unprofitable to them, if only for that reason. Moving UR points between accounts seems to be a relatively successful way to get extra scrutiny on your account. If they decide that what they find upon investigation merits a closure, they don't mind losing a customer.
In short, if you value your Chase relationship (and they do offer some of the best cards and bonuses), play very gently with them.
I get they don't like someone with a $10k line spending $30k a month by paying it off three times and only having an annual income $100k
I get that paying bills through Wa-Mart is a clear way to short the system but it seems like lines get crossed a bunch
Mar 18, 2017, 3:17 pm
#1325
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
Is it possible to extend UR expiration date by transferring them to household account? Chase shut down all of my dad's account almost a month ago and failed to reinstate the accounts via executive office. I am thinking of moving his UR to my account (Same household) for time being while I decide what to do with them. I am not worried about my eventual shut down and I know it is coming sooner or later. I don't care if I survive or not but need to extend the UR expiration (or losing them after 30 days window).
Thanks
Thanks
How much extra time you think you could buy if it even works?
Mar 18, 2017, 3:45 pm
#1326
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: TPA/DFW/K15
Programs: AA EXP, Mar AMB, HH LT DIA
Posts: 1,653
So I just have a hard time believing that Chase is looking to close accounts for no reason. What is the upside of this behavior for them? There has to be something that has either been done wrong or appears to be and I find it hard to believe that anyone who has this happen to them doesn't know exactly what is if they look in the mirror long enough.
Then why make it so easy to do so? I dump the UR from Freedom into the CSR account (which is truly minimal in comparison to my CSR spend) every month.
Mar 18, 2017, 4:04 pm
#1327
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
What josephstern meant was transfer between UR accounts that do NOT belong to you or your AUs. People used to do that when they were selling their URs and that was a clear violation of the rules but for a long time the transfer could be done freely.
Just check the history of posts from poster dell614 who posted a couple days ago about his accounts were shut down and claimed being innocent - you will see what might be the reasons that trigger the shutdown despite he claimed innocence. Both Appleman and mia have posted the relevant links of his posts in the past. And of course we have not seen his coming back on the shut down subject again.
You could go read them thus have a better understanding yourself.
Chase eventually put in more restriction on UR transfer rules and those still violate such, got their accounts shut down.
Mar 18, 2017, 4:13 pm
#1328
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: HHonors Lifetime Diamond, UA Million Miler Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,142
I have literally spent 90 minutes reading back through pages of this thread. Seems to me that everyone that has has this happen has some area they were trying to short cut the system and Chase was just smart enough to catch it and now they are upset.
Seriously, I have not found one person who seems to have a legitimate gripe. All the people complaining are admitting to manufactured spend, shady behavior etc.
I do not see one person posting who pays all their monthly bills, and expenditures, pays the bill of each month with a legitimate account from Chase or another bank having anything revoked.
It is all people pushing or exceeding 5/24 rules, paying bills with Walmart bill pay, clearly spending more money than they make but not being able to justify where it comes from etc.
Does anyone have a truly legitimate case of using the card and paying for it properly and having an issue?
Seriously, I have not found one person who seems to have a legitimate gripe. All the people complaining are admitting to manufactured spend, shady behavior etc.
I do not see one person posting who pays all their monthly bills, and expenditures, pays the bill of each month with a legitimate account from Chase or another bank having anything revoked.
It is all people pushing or exceeding 5/24 rules, paying bills with Walmart bill pay, clearly spending more money than they make but not being able to justify where it comes from etc.
Does anyone have a truly legitimate case of using the card and paying for it properly and having an issue?
Mar 18, 2017, 4:43 pm
#1329
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: TPA/DFW/K15
Programs: AA EXP, Mar AMB, HH LT DIA
Posts: 1,653
You misunderstood.
What josephstern meant was transfer between UR accounts that do NOT belong to you or your AUs. People used to do that when they were selling their URs and that was a clear violation of the rules but for a long time the transfer could be done freely.
Just check the history of posts from poster dell614 who posted a couple days ago about his accounts were shut down and claimed being innocent - you will see what might be the reasons that trigger the shutdown despite he claimed innocence. Both Appleman and mia have posted the relevant links of his posts in the past. And of course we have not seen his coming back on the shut down subject again.
You could go read them thus have a better understanding yourself.
Chase eventually put in more restriction on UR transfer rules and those still violate such, got their accounts shut down.
What josephstern meant was transfer between UR accounts that do NOT belong to you or your AUs. People used to do that when they were selling their URs and that was a clear violation of the rules but for a long time the transfer could be done freely.
Just check the history of posts from poster dell614 who posted a couple days ago about his accounts were shut down and claimed being innocent - you will see what might be the reasons that trigger the shutdown despite he claimed innocence. Both Appleman and mia have posted the relevant links of his posts in the past. And of course we have not seen his coming back on the shut down subject again.
You could go read them thus have a better understanding yourself.
Chase eventually put in more restriction on UR transfer rules and those still violate such, got their accounts shut down.
Mar 18, 2017, 5:04 pm
#1330
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,959
Card issuers consider this a credit risk because the cardholder may not use the cash to pay the bill. They consider it a regulatory risk because the pattern of transactions shares some elements with money laundering. They consider it a marketing failure because the cardholder typically does not continue to use the card after spending just enough to earn the new account bonus, or spends only in categories that generate bonuses.
Last edited by mia; Mar 18, 2017 at 5:12 pm
Mar 18, 2017, 7:03 pm
#1331
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Traveling some where hopefully
Programs: AS, AA Gold, and Hilton
Posts: 1,954
I have literally spent 90 minutes reading back through pages of this thread. Seems to me that everyone that has has this happen has some area they were trying to short cut the system and Chase was just smart enough to catch it and now they are upset.
Seriously, I have not found one person who seems to have a legitimate gripe. All the people complaining are admitting to manufactured spend, shady behavior etc.
I do not see one person posting who pays all their monthly bills, and expenditures, pays the bill of each month with a legitimate account from Chase or another bank having anything revoked.
It is all people pushing or exceeding 5/24 rules, paying bills with Walmart bill pay, clearly spending more money than they make but not being able to justify where it comes from etc.
Does anyone have a truly legitimate case of using the card and paying for it properly and having an issue?
Seriously, I have not found one person who seems to have a legitimate gripe. All the people complaining are admitting to manufactured spend, shady behavior etc.
I do not see one person posting who pays all their monthly bills, and expenditures, pays the bill of each month with a legitimate account from Chase or another bank having anything revoked.
It is all people pushing or exceeding 5/24 rules, paying bills with Walmart bill pay, clearly spending more money than they make but not being able to justify where it comes from etc.
Does anyone have a truly legitimate case of using the card and paying for it properly and having an issue?
It's possible a few got dropped by mistake but 90%+ fall into what you said.
Mar 19, 2017, 3:58 am
#1332
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
1. Your banking activities, not just credit card, can doom you the same way.
2. In addition to Chase's dedicated blacklist unit, each branch manager has the authority to put people on the list.
Mar 19, 2017, 7:57 am
#1333
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
It appears to me that you're trying to correct someone that agrees with you.
Mar 19, 2017, 8:59 am
#1334
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 615
I've been following this thread off and on for a while, and I believe some have claimed they had been cut off because they'll only use freedom for 5X promotional charges, CS for dinner, travel & nothing else (and as Hawkeye pointed out, probably something missing in their story). I think I will follow this thread more closely going forward. Maybe I'm just noticing some pushback on these "stories" from you and Hawkeye that make me believe what I do, is without risk. I don't churn and rarely cancel cards, but I generate a large amount of rewards using the Chase cards in their targeted categories.
There is absolutely zero chance that chase has shut someone down because they only use their cards when bonus categories are in effect (i.e. Freedom for 5x, CSP for only dining travel, ink pref for only telecom and shipping, etc) with legit/organic spend - what's the point of their offerings?. It really strains credulity and pretty much illogical.
Mar 19, 2017, 1:58 pm
#1335
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: HHonors Lifetime Diamond, UA Million Miler Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,142
I think people who want to use manufactured spend should consider options other than Chase or not be shocked at all when their accounts are revoked or they lose points. I do not think Chase makes a secret of the fact they do not tolerate this.